A look into Publishing

[apeiron]

I've always found it interesting how we're surrounded by a slew of writers/role players, and not one among us has ever taken a deeper look than the barest scrapes into the world of Publishing. Now--this could be because it is something that, as of this moment, none of us have achieved: it could simply be because of the fact that no one wants to share their knowledge due to some misguided and ill conceived notion that there is not enough to go around. Either way, I've found that it suits me just fine to present the facts that I've been uncovering about this wide and confusing topic. Please bare with me on this--as you all know, I am still an unpublished author. One big advantage I do have is that for the past 7-9 months I have been the understudy of several of the worlds most prolific and accomplished Fantasy and Sci-fi authors.

To list a few of my teachers: Kevin J. Anderson (For those of you who don't know, Kevin is a best selling author with over 100 books published, 49 of which have appeared on the New York Times bestseller list, along with multiple other books. He's currently finishing up the Dune novels with Brian Hurbert, the son of the original writer, Frank Herbert.), Dave Wolverton/Farland (Dave is the author of several amazing New York Times bestsellers, he's also considered the best possible teacher any aspiring author can have. He's responsible for the careers of authors like J.K Rowling, and Stephenie Meyers, along with the man taking the Fantasy genre by storm: Brandon Sanderson. Dave is also a former winner of the 'Writers of the Future' contest.), not last, and certainly no where near least is Brandon Sanderson (Brandon is the current star of the biggest publishing house for fantasy at the moment: TOR. He's written 13 novels so far, 9 of which have appeared on either the NYT BS list, or International Bestseller list. Along with his own books, he's also the person finishing up the Wheel Of Time Series by Robert Jordan. His skill, prose, and all round epic fantasy exploits have caused a massive stir in the fantasy publishing industry.).

Now that I've talked a little bit about me, let's talk directly about what these wonderful gentlemen have been teaching me. Although it would have been amazing to have gotten the chance to learn the craft of writing from all three of these guys--or any other of my teachers, it would not have been a realistic or smart thing for any of them to do. Luckily, chance and networking have provided me with the next great thing: people who know the business.

Well start here:

There are two ways that a person can get published: one is the traditional way, and the other is the self/e-publishing route that a person can take.

Traditional Publishing: The traditional publisher is often referred to as the 'New York' publisher, mainly because all of the major publishing houses are located in New York. A lot of people have some very misguided and simply ignorant thoughts on what a traditional publisher does, and how they work; basically they take shots in the dark without ever knowing anything about them. To shed some light on the situation:

1. A person who sends a manuscript to a traditional publisher always has some inane fear that their manuscript will not be read: This is NOT true. Publishers hire people to read your manuscript, and sometimes it often will go through three different readers just to make sure it gets read. That's their job, to read. Most people try little tricks to check and see if the house actually read their manuscript, believe me, these people have been in this business long enough to know them all. I've had it from three editors that they have purposely gone through some effort to pull a reversal on these attempts just to screw with people.

2. Which leads me to another very illusionary point about these people: Editors are you're friends. Believe it or not, editors are humans. They have big giant hearts that love writing. They really, really love writing. If any of you have seen "The Proposal" with Ryan Reynolds and Sandra Bullock, then you have seen the biggest lie and misrepresentation of an editor. Sadly, these people do not make much money. They are honestly in this business because they love what they do--very much like teachers do, but with less heart break over drop outs. They are silently rooting on the person who sends in their novels, hoping that they actually make it. A lot of would be writers give these fantastic people a very bad reputation and often market them off as their own personal devil: be nice to these people, in the end they would love to see your books on the shelves of Barnes & Nobles and--Well, I would have said Boarders--moving on.

3. The marketing division of the publishing houses are the guys we should hate. It's these pencil pushers that cause most of the authors that send in their works to remain in a hellish place called 'The Slushpile'. An ongoing and epic war is waged between these demons and the angelic editors that fight for your book to get published. However, it is because of these people that the publishing industry has stayed afloat for so long. There are a lot of people who want to get their books published, and some of them may have fantastic ideas and stories; a majority of them do, actually. There is no want for a talented writer, however what these people want are professional authors who can produce a profit for them. Which helps lead me into my next point

4. Authors are split into three groups whenever they are published-

a.) Lead Writer: These people are the shining stars of the publishing companies. They are usually the ones who you see at the top of the best seller list. Also, they are the publishing houses main source of income. A publishing house will have an average maybe 6 strong Lead Writers. It doesn't sound like much, but when you look at it from their perspective, it's massive. Alone, these 6-10 writers will cover 50% of all operational cost for a publishing house. That's massive for such a small number of people: the bigger thing is that these few writers also generate ALL the profit for the publishing house. Hands down, the only profit the publishing house will make is going to come from this very small but hugely talented group of individuals.

b.) Midlist Writers: These guys are the every day authors whose books you see lining the shelf at most book stores. Sadly, there is no middle ground between being a Midlist Author or a Lead Writer, it's one or the other. These guys stats also pale in comparison. While 6-10 people cover 50% of operational cost and generate all profit for the publishing house, it takes upwards of maybe 20-60 authors to cover the other 50% of operational cost. And that's it. These authors generate no profit for the company, and basically have to ride of the backs of the Lead Writers in the Publishing house. It is possible to move from being a Midlist writer to a Lead Writer, but this rarely happens.

c.) New Writer (Us): If you've ever wondered why it is so hard for you to get that novel you have poured your heart into published, here is the reason why: The first book that a New Writer puts out is going to loose the publishing house money. We're not talking snikle frits here either. On it's first run, this new book is going to put the publishing house anywhere from $10-$20,000 in the hole. Nothing will be gained from this first book! New writers drive the marketing department of publishing houses haywire, because of the massive risk they are taking on you. Basically the publisher is gambling a pretty heavy sum that the later works you put out will be able to make some money for them. It's a hard and sad truth.

5. Income is something you have to know about. As much as being a writer is important, know the publishing business is just as, if not more important at this current stage in any writer career. What you have to understand is that us writers view things from a completely different perspective than the publishing houses do. From a writers point of view it will look like this:

The publisher will grab 85% of all income from the book.

The writer will get anywhere between 8-15%. Tops.

From this point of view, it basically looks like you're getting screwed, correct? Well, lets take a look at how a publisher has to view the revenue stream:

1/2 will go to the Distributer.
1/6 will go to the Publisher.
1/6 will go to the author, roughly.
1/6 will go to the printer.

Out of this the publisher will also have to pay their staff, operational cost,etc. Looks a little different when you have to view things from their perception.

Spoiler:

I also have a lot to say about how revenue charts work for us. How much we make per book, etc. I'll get to that in another posting though.

Now--I'd like to veer off from the traditional publisher to talk about the other option that now exist for people.

Self-Publishing/E-Publishing:

I have made a slight reference to this subject already, but I think here I have need to go into a little more detail with this. First off, know that it is NOT advised for a new Author to self publish a novel. The reason is that a writer is not his own best critic, neither are his friends, family, coworkers, psychiatrist, or priest. Whatever have you, more often than not a new writer who is looking to self-publish is often heading into some heavily dangerous waters.

Pros: The upside to self-publishing/E-publishing is that everything comes back to the author. You quite literally keep the entire pie to yourself, not having to share it with anyone. You are your own creative director, you tell yourself when to work, you set your own due dates, and you say when, where, how, and how much.

Cons: While the above sounds amazingly dreamlike, you have to realize how self motivated you're going to have to be in order to pull this off. Also, you're now sans 300 years of networking and relationships that the big corporate publishers have spent their entire lives making. It's all up to you to do the work of countless people, all on your own. Self promotion is now up to you, hiring someone to do the art for you book, editing, dealing with bookstores, creating a reading base for yourself. You're basically starting from scratch--you're also going to have to pay out of pocket if you ever want to see any hard or even paper back version of your book. Everything that the publisher would have done you have now taken on yourself. The more time you spend on all of these things, the less time you get to spend on writing. With no time to spend on writing you will soon run out of things to sell, and with no product to sell, you will spiral into a disaster.

Now, I am not saying that succeeding as a Self-Published author is impossible, far from it. I currently know two people who are doing VERY well at it. Amanda Hocking is a young woman who is currently selling novels by the thousands and well on her way to busting her first $1,000,000 on her own through e-publishing. Moses Siregar is an up and coming author who is also well on his way to becoming one of the biggest names in the self publishing game, he's currently writing his way to the top of Amazon.coms e-book list. Both him and Amanda are raking it in. However let's not forget a warning I posted earlier, which basically covers everything that needs to be said on this subject. It's a little long, but reading it will convey this message best.

Spoiler:

—The Dangers of Self-Publishing
Friday I wrote about Amanda Hocking’s tremendous rise to becoming a bestseller through self-publishing her e-books. I’ve heard from a lot of fans lately who want to give that a try, and by all means, if you think that you’ve got the chops, give it a try.

But let me warn you of the danger first. Unfortunately, you are not your own best critic. Nor is your spouse or your mother or your neighbor your best critic. As a result, when you think that you’re ready to publish, in most cases you’re not.

Time and time again, I find writers who are almost delusional. They’re like the singers that tried out in Hollywood last week on American Idol. They were by far the worst that the country had seen. For some reason, Hollywood attracts delusional people.

Because writers aren’t their own best critics, we often hear stories like the one told by Raymond Feist recently. He got a knock on his door, and when he answered, the fellow at the door said, “I’ll be you’ve never talked to a real author before!” Ray, who has sold millions and millions of books, just laughed and said, “Buddy, I think you’ve got the wrong house.” But the fellow persisted and showed Ray his two self-published novels. They were printed to a high quality, which showed that the fellow had some taste, and so Raymond bought them and the fellow went off to schlep his works door-to-door. Raymond then read the first few pages of one and said that it was one of the worst novels that he’d ever seen.

I’ve done that same experience on more than one occasion, picked up a self-published novel only to see a dozen horrible mistakes—everything from typos to misspellings and just genuinely terrible prose—all within two pages.

So I’m worried that in the rush of self-published authors this year, we’re going to see a lot of people embarrass themselves. More importantly, you might actually hurt your career.

Let’s say that you put up a book that isn’t quite ready, and it gets twenty reviews on line, and most of them pan your book. How easy do you think it will be to sell your next book, or the one after that? Those negative reviews will never go away, and they’ll dog you. Indeed, they’ll destroy the name that you’re trying to create for yourself.

So don’t rush to publish in e-book format.

Please be aware that I’m not saying “Don’t publish.” I’m just urging you to be careful.

Last year I won the Whitney Award for Best Novel of the Year with a book that I self-published. When I won the award, Howard Tayler, the self-published author of the famous Schlock Mercenary cartoons, said, “You know, Dave, you’ve just done a world of damage. You self-published for all of the wrong reasons: your mother begged you to do it. You didn’t want to take your regular publisher’s advice. Then to top it off, you sold all of your stock, got great reviews, and won a major award. I keep telling people not to self-publish, even though I’m making my own living at it, and now you come along and just reinforce the wrong message.”

Howard is right of course. Both of us were publishing to small market shares, where self-publishing made a little more sense, and we both succeeded, just as Amanda Hocking is succeeding, and some of you are succeeding.

One of my friends and past students, Moses Siregar, I just found out, is at the top of Amazon’s sales charts with his epic fantasy THE BLACK GOD’S WAR. Moses is a fine writer and is deserving of success, and I think that it will follow. But Moses also knows the risks. I recently heard some other New York Times bestselling writers tell him, “Moses, don’t self-publish!” They pointed out the risks. I then told him, “You know, Moses, I hate to say this, but I think you’ll do it. You’re savvy enough to know what you need to do in order to self-publish well, and I think that you should go ahead.” Now, four weeks later, he’s doing great. So go check out his book at http://www.amazon.com/Black-Gods-War.../dp/B003Z0D2HK

It will only cost a dollar, and if Moses gets the velocity he needs, maybe his project will turn him into the next Amanda Hocking. Personally, I really enjoyed Moses’s work.

Oh, and don’t self-publish! For every one who succeeds, there will be hundreds who will destroy a potential career. Recognize that when you self-publish, you might just be gambling with your career. --Dave Farland/Wolverton

And that's about all I have to say on this subject for the moment. Hopefully some of what I have said will be able to help you along your way.

[Roen]

Listen to this man.

Listen to this man.

Listen to this man.

Listen to this man.

I demand that this thread be sticky'd.

[Ace]

It should be sticky'd.

[Morgan]

To add:

Literary agents - You want to find a literary agent when you've completed your first novel or screenplay and you have, at least, a general idea of your second and/or subsequent novels. You probably won't need one for a collection of shorts or if you're only going to write that one novel. If a literary agent tells you that he/she will read your manuscript 'for a fee'.run. Run away from him/her as fast as you can. Legitimate, reputable agents do NOT charge a fee for evaluating your manuscript. Real agents make their money by taking a commission from you AFTER you have been published, and not before, simply because IT IS THEIR JOB to help you get published. My suggestion would be to look for a literary agent who belongs to the Association of Authors' Representatives, which requires its members to follow a code of ethics. While it can't promise the agents there are actually great agents, the AAR does actually weed out quite a few of the scammers.

Publishers - Never pay a publisher to publish your book. Not a small sum, not half the expenses, not even a single penny. Why? Because writing is your job. Doctors get paid to heal, chefs get paid to cook, and writers get paid to write. On the flip side, don't have the delusion that you can 'charge' the publisher to publish your book, either. Your compensation for the book you want published will probably be around $5000, perhaps a little more if you've found a good literary agent who helped you get as much as possible. Another reason why literary agents are so important in your endeavors to be published; your rights. When you're selling your book, you're not actually selling the bookconfusing, I know. What you're selling to the publisher is the right to publish your book in a particular format for a limited time. Your literary agent can help you retain foreign language, movie, book club, compilation, and other rights. You SHOULD KEEP these rights.

Editors - I think another reason why editors have such a horrible reputation is because they take 'your baby' and dissect it, culling from it those little pieces that you cling to because you absolutely loved them. Wake up. Your book, novel, poetry, etcis not your baby. I've written a book and I've birthed three babies and I can tell you that, without a doubt, writing a novel is nothing like birthing a child. Quit worrying about what your editor is going to do to your noveland go write your next one.

Scams - Yes, scams. Recognize them and avoid them. If it looks too good to be true, then it is. There are far too many predators out there that prey on upcoming authors who are desperate to get their manuscripts published. While some, like certain writers' conventions, are valuable, others like the "How To Write and Publish Your Book In Fourteen Days" scam are not. Caveat emptor, let the buyer beware. Or a more fitting version, "When in public showers, keep your soap on a rope and don't bend over."

[Traxien Cion]

Awesome 1337th post.

Stickied.

[Inception]

Very interested in this, reading it as soon as I can. I've always wondered but never had the time to do research myself.

[Zach]

It yet again reinforces how difficult it would be for all of us to become published. Despite the fact that many of us are already resigned to the difficulty, and risks.

[Glory]

I just skimmed, and I didn't see this mentioned so I want to bring it up--

OH LOL HI EVERYONE NICE TO SEE YOU GUYS BEEN A WHILE HUH?

If you are writing an original fic, be aware that posting it on Valucre -- or any public forum, really -- constitutes an exercise of your first rights; that is, first rights to publish a story or novel anywhere, in any format. First rights are the most valuable rights you own besides the copyright itself, and once you exercise them, they are gone forever, even if you take the story down later. If you are thinking your short story might be commercially publishable, and that you might want to pursue that avenue someday, then do not post it in the open in any form, under any circumstances. There is virtually no paying market for stories without first rights. If you have a novel-length work, be advised that while book publishers can be more flexible, not all are, and you will freeze yourself out of some markets, and so you should think very carefully about posting it online.

I repeat: once the story is posted, your first rights have been exercised, even if you take it down later. This will make a novel more difficult to publish and a short story unpublishable entirely (even many story contests do not want a story which has appeared anywhere). If you are looking for advice and critique for a story before publication you should find a few trusted people and correspond by email or an otherwise private medium.

Please note that the above does not apply to copyright. First rights are the right to be the first to publish a work. Copyright is the overall right to control a work, from which all others rights spring, and must be explicitly given up by the author. Once a work is committed to any permanent medium, including computer memory, copyright attaches--contrary to popular belief, there is no need to register with the copyright office. The author of any original story in this forum holds copyright, and unless he grants explicit permission, may not be reworked, redistributed, or resold in any way by any party except the author himself. This is beyond Valucre's rules; that's copyright law in North America.

[sunbreaker_]

In my experience and in the experience of my contemporaries it has been found that self-motivation is the most important quality an aspiring writer can possess.

To be brief, you will not truly be ready to publish any work until you find that you've grown to hate it.

[Sx.]

Okay, after not having too much time to read all the long winded bullshit. Let me say that for one. We do have role players who have become published. Your best bet, since its the same boat. Is to ask her how she went about it.

Honestly, though the book isn't a direct copy of the story on Valucre, Ayenee, and Exodyus, etc. It was still heavily based on a roleplay we've spent years on. I noticed a lot of web-fictions, web serial, and web novels are mostly on blogging websites. Where each 'journal entry' is made as a chapter to the book. From there you run into different communities, (a lot like how we have plenty of role playing communities) of authors who help plug one another while giving reviews on each others work.

Then there are the 'topsite' forums, just like how once again, we have in our roleplay communities, but instead, its everyone's webserial or web novel competing with votes to reach the top of the list for even more exposure. I won't say this always works.

But it worked for Terra. Who's book is in print really soon and then being followed up with five more books. All in all if youre looking for a direction to be pointed in. Why dont you ask her, a former valucre roleplayer, who took her roleplay, and had it officially published, to give you some pointers.

The Antithesis is currently the number one webserial @ Top Web Fiction. For the year. Considering the influx of readers she has, it's probably going to stay that way.

Stop acting like she doesn't exist.

[odium.]

You probably should have read the entire thread, since it had nothing to do with Tara or her webcomic, Shawn.

[Sx.]

No. I read enough. You should of probably read my post again. Too many people talking about something havent done yet like they've been doing it for years, the assumption that rp'ers have yet to get published, and the thought about how one should go about it are the subjects I attacked. Lastly. Its not a comic. Its a novel.

[soulbrand]

You probably should have read the entire thread, since it had nothing to do with Tara or her webcomic, Shawn.

It has nothing to do with any role-player who has been published or who hasn't been published. The original poster has been taking several literary classes that cover this topic as well as several other and he felt like a community of writers would enjoy some of the knowledge he has gained on the subject.

I thought the entire topic until the last few posts was pretty well done.

[Morgan]

No. I read enough. You should of probably read my post again. Too many people talking about something havent done yet like they've been doing it for years, the assumption that rp'ers have yet to get published, and the thought about how one should go about it are the subjects I attacked. Lastly. Its not a comic. Its a novel.

Obviously, you didn't read enough. And, yes, I read all of your post. . .twice. The "long winded bullshit" that you so ignorantly attacked spoke about the different routes one can go about to get oneself published, both the traditional way and the way Tara chose to go, via e-publishing, -as been taught by a slew of authors more knowledgeable in the field of publishing than you, me, Tara, and the OP combined-.

The tidbits of information that I threw in are things that I've learned on my journey to become published. I chose the more traditional route and, thus, the info I shared revolves around that. I may not be published yet, but I am one step closer than most, or so says my agent.

(I'm unsure of the details surrounding the publication process of Tara's book, so I won't speak on them.) She's more than welcomed to come share her knowledge, if she so chooses to do so. However, I don't see why the OP should have asked her anything. She is still an unpublished (traditionally) author.

Being published=\=Already published.

Quit attacking people for sharing information they've legitimately gained. It's unnecessary and makes you look like a dolt.

[Illianna Raverbien]

Awesome thread, all in all. It outlines the dream of publishing nicely. The reality however is that as you're writing, hundreds of thousands of people around the world are as well. People who know publishers, editors, etc either through religious, familial or occupational affiliations. That's not to say that submitting a manuscript to an agent or publisher is fruitless, but you better have a damn good story too tell (and as has been mentioned, you better have more planned).

With the advent of Kindle, Ipad and the other tablet systems, Ebooks are on the rise. For about 100$ you can get whatever you want published into this format through several online sources. Setting up a basic website or blog you can then begin to give samples of your writing and eventually publish the E-versions of your books when they are complete. Utilizing twitter, facebook and other free online networking you market your ass off. As you sell the E-version you build up enough money for a physical print (if you find you have a high enough fan base for it)

The great part is, as you are writing your book, getting resources together, etc, people are able to read your writing, and maybe hire you. You're be amazed how many people need a writer for the stupidist little things. Either becasue they have no grasp of grammer or simply have no faith in their own ability, I have been hired to write advertisments, scripts, blurbs, blogs and am currently working on a screenplay for a student in NYC who will be submitting the finished film in a few film festivals.

In addition to any actual work that might come your way, if done properly, you also have Adcents paying you ocassionally for just trying to build your buisness and your fan base. This is how I've been doing it for the past year, and is how I am up to making an average of 7 cents a word.