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Acies ab Vesania

Market is Back

23 posts in this topic

YESSSSSSS

I'm going to buy my user title so hard

EDIT: oh wait it's not that type of market. :/

So, with the addition of this market system, we can no longer pull random items out of our ass at the beginning of the thread?

Edited by Throne

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3 minutes ago, Throne said:

YESSSSSSS

I'm going to buy my user title so hard

EDIT: oh wait it's not that type of market. :/

Actually, if you go to the Valucre site market thread it's listed as a Class C purchase. So you can buy it with 5 post credits. Although how that works for a title I'm not sure, lol.

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Certainly seems interesting, but I have a couple questions:

- How would one go about getting things like username and title changes?  I see those have been given classes to fit in with the new system, but you can't really write a post saying "my character prays to the great God Supernal for a username change," right?

- Perhaps this ought to be based on word count rather than post count?  Having a set post requirement would encourage making posts of the smallest length possible.  Plus, it'd be more convenient for people doing solo item-acquirement threads if they could just write up their story and post it all in one go.

- What is there to make users bother using this system?  In the previous incarnation, VB was built up through posting, and so regardless of what you did, you'd end up with a fair amount over time.  Because of this, there was little cost to getting items, users would simply say "Oh, look, I have all this VB now, maybe I should buy something."  Now, however, it seems that a lot of items will require specific investment, and in some cases posts describing activities that many might consider tedious or irrelevant... why should anyone do this?  With the rather free-form approach to character profiles here, one could easily just add weapons/abilities/equipment to one's characters with similar properties or effects to what is on sale. 

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12 minutes ago, Throne said:

YESSSSSSS

I'm going to buy my user title so hard

EDIT: oh wait it's not that type of market. :/

So, with the addition of this market system, we can no longer pull random items out of our ass at the beginning of the thread?

Red covered the user title.

Yes, you still can. This is to purchase items already listed in a board's marketplace. People have been, and continue to be, free to come up with their own stuff at will.

 

6 minutes ago, bigfatcat said:

Certainly seems interesting, but I have a couple questions:

- How would one go about getting things like username and title changes?  I see those have been given classes to fit in with the new system, but you can't really write a post saying "my character prays to the great God Supernal for a username change," right?

- Perhaps this ought to be based on word count rather than post count?  Having a set post requirement would encourage making posts of the smallest length possible.  Plus, it'd be more convenient for people doing solo item-acquirement threads if they could just write up their story and post it all in one go.

- What is there to make users bother using this system?  In the previous incarnation, VB was built up through posting, and so regardless of what you did, you'd end up with a fair amount over time.  Because of this, there was little cost to getting items, users would simply say "Oh, look, I have all this VB now, maybe I should buy something."  Now, however, it seems that a lot of items will require specific investment, and in some cases posts describing activities that many might consider tedious or irrelevant... why should anyone do this?  With the rather free-form approach to character profiles here, one could easily just add weapons/abilities/equipment to one's characters with similar properties or effects to what is on sale. 

1. See red's post above. The first post of the site market has been updated.

2. Site rule has been 120 minimum words minimum, that is still expected. Fortunately, no one has been breaking that one lately, but if people start doing so again, we can deal with it then. Some quests might have individual requirements, however. 

3. As I mentioned to Throne above, you're still free to make your own stuff at your leisure. This covers the cases where you see something in the shop you really want- if it is listed in the shop, you cannot just manifest that item. However, there is no prohibition against creating your own magical items/weapons and the like for your individual characters. People have done that all along. 

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@bigfatcat

I'm going to pretend your points are numbered. 

2. If the idea is that the system as is encourages more frequent posts of the smallest length possible than a word count factor would encourage infrequent posts of the largest length possible. Probably the solution is somewhere in between by adding some equivalent of word count to post count. So you could do either 15 posts OR X amount of words that would be roughly equivalent. 

Just saw Nick's post!

With the site update we haven't bothered to buy a new word count mod since the emoticon IC posts that the word count was originally implemented to combat has pretty much died down. Since points aren't tied explicitly to posts there's no hard need to enforce this either. But we can use the 120 word count (or some other number that's more "average" than "minimum", idk) for the above variable though, IMO. 

3. What you're saying is that the previous system didn't make people bother using the system. They just ended up having something they didn't realize they were getting and were like "well, might as well", which wasn't even all that true considering how points ended up being hoarded anyway.

For the site market there is an obvious incentive to use this system, if you want to change your username or user title. For the national markets, guess it depends on how strictly the board leader wants to enforce it. As Nick said you can't manifest items that are already in the market and people have been able to create their own magical items and weapons and this is in no way meant to discourage that, but depending on how "similar" to one of the market items someone tried to make their own item, I have no problem tapping them on the shoulder about that. After a point it isn't creative expression, just trying to shortcut the system, and when it's blatant it's usually pretty blatant. 

With regards to Materials in Terrenus, things like airships in Genesaris, and other unique items for the markets, I think that would be why anyone would bother. I create stuff of my own all the time but, some times, I've used my own market for specific characters too. The idea was never to make the market the only method by which people can gain items. 

Edited by supernal
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I didn't address no.1 yet cause I'm still thinking on whether or not we really should have admin usernames listed as Deities of Nomenclature so they can invoke name changes through prayer. 

Rin and Acies ab Vesania like this

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Alright, so correct if I'm wrong on this, but lets say I'm currently have plans to pursue a plot device artifact-weapon thingy that isn't cannon. Before anyone asks, yes this would most certainly count as an S Class item.

 

This particular item isn't one that you would find in a market however, ore so a one of a kind, probably an S+ if I graded it. Before this new market system was implemented, I would have just ok'd it with an individual in control of the region or even the continent and work it out with them to make sure it was alright obtaining this item, providing sufficient proof of me working up to obtaining said item with several previous threads of course. If they approved it, then I would move forward with the thread obtaining it. HOWEVER. With THIS market system, obtaining an item, even one in the wilderness or a dungeon, would cost me a sufficient amount of Post points as well as a detailed thread overcoming numerous dangers on top of having to be canonized first correct?

 

Mind you, this is all uh...completely hypothetical...of course.

Sweats

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If it's not a listed item, you're free to just make it up. Checking with the controller of the region and doing whatever work they think sounds reasonable is doing it in a good way, but not a required way. This only applies to things listed in a boardleader's marketplace. 

Also, the degree of difficulty does not matter. Doing a dangerous, S class style quest would net you the credits to get an S class item much faster, but one could theoretically do their own thread (not a quest) and just put in the time and effort to pump out 135 posts. It would take longer, but that's their call on how they want to go about it. Dangerous quest vs Leisurely thread is the difference of about 6 pages of work. :P

supernal and Ghastardly like this

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I'm sorry, guys, I tried, but my eyes glazed over about three-quarters of the way through. I felt like I was trying to read the WarHammer 40K rules again. This is suuuuper complicated to me. 

So, I guess, the questions I have are, like... well, tons. If we can just pretty much have anything normal or slightly oddball that isn't in the marketplace without worrying about points, that means Kit's Haazard&Khaos 9mm handgun comes free, but I have to buy her rope and her backpack? Seems to me this would be best suited to things that are really special, like airships and artifacts and temporary invincibility potions and talking unicorn companions, rather than rope and smokebombs and band-aids. 

Finally, once this really goes live, am I going to be seriously backed up in the posting department trying to get Jazz's earrings and gloves in a legit way? Or does some stuff get grandfathered in?

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"Backpack" and "rope" aren't individually listed items in any market that I know of. If you mean the particular "adventure packs" listed in the Terrenus market then it would be for those specific packs. 

Items listed in the market should be somewhat unique for that reason. We agree on that point. If you can point me in the direction of bandaids you and me and the market leader should have a discussion (unless it's me then it'd be just you and me instead of like. A second me)  

Also having seen the 40k war hammer rules in book form and glancing at the few paragraphs in the rules here I think that was a bit of an exaggeration madam! Basically because you weren't able to finish the rules I think you may or may not be straw manning here, i.e. Making recommendations to cut through Gordian knots that may or may not exist. 

Wanna work with me and Nick on a more simplified version?

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@Acies ab Vesania

This sort of thing is what makes me question whether the addition of + to the classes and .x modifiers streamline and help or just complicate things for our user base. 

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Yes, it was an exaggeration, because I am the Queen of Exaggerationand have rules for 95 years consecutively. That said, I think I've established both my techie and nerd creds in other posts here, and I still found this to be on the obtuse side.... will put more specific thought into it and get back to you when I have time to write more than two lines. :)

 

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Just now, Charli Foxtrot said:

Yes, it was an exaggeration, because I am the Queen of Exaggerationand have rules for 95 years consecutively. That said, I think I've established both my techie and nerd creds in other posts here, and I still found this to be on the obtuse side.... will put more specific thought into it and get back to you when I have time to write more than two lines. :)

 

Later today I'm going to take a stab at a more simplified version that just gets down to brass tacks, so to speak, and then link to the more detailed document to fall back on should there be more questions. I'll copy you on it when I send it to Nick as a sort of beta reader thing. 

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