Voting has reset for the month of May. Valucre is in the top 10 but we aim for the top 3 for maximum visibility when people land on the home page of the topsite. If you want to help new members discover Valucre, vote for us daily.

Valucre

Register now to gain access to the World of Valucre. Once you do, you'll be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You can ask questions before signing up in the pre-registration threadexplore the world's lore in the Valucre Overview, and learn all you need to know in five minutes by reading the Getting Started page.

Teivel Morteus

Teach me to T1.

18 posts in this topic

So - the time has come.

I believe that despite my personal disinterest in the medium, one day I'm going to HAVE to T1 in a thread.

I'm not looking to become a tournament competitor or a world beater - I'd really just like someone patient and experienced to teach me the basics and perhaps spar me a few times after doing so to make sure I at least vaguely understood the concepts.

Kingofgames12 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Teivel Morteus said:

So - the time has come.

I believe that despite my personal disinterest in the medium, one day I'm going to HAVE to T1 in a thread.

*trump voice* WRONG

you actually never have to t1 on valucre if you don't want to, you can't be forced into it against  your will

Quote

I'm not looking to become a tournament competitor or a world beater - I'd really just like someone patient and experienced to teach me the basics and perhaps spar me a few times after doing so to make sure I at least vaguely understood the concepts.

with the above said, if you *do* want to do t1, here are some of the very bare basics--since T1 is a basically a sub form of writing, the possibilities that can happen with it are pretty much endless, as with writing in general, but there are some consistent principles guiding the outcome

first and foremost, you should expect that at some point during the match, either you or your opponent will question something that the other has done IC, in an OOC manner. For instance, you write something that I don't find plausible, and instead of replying IC, I PM you giving you an argument for why it's not plausible, to which you are then obligated to defend yourself. Very few T1 matches can be settled purely IC, it's my opinion that any time this does happen, it's because the losing party didn't really care too much about winning the match to begin with and found it more expedient to simply capitulate rather than deal with the stress of arguing their case OOC, in which case I wouldn't really consider it T1 if one party is lacking commitment to that extent. If both people have a high investment in actually winning the match this will almost definitely happen, as it is not really possible to force someone to "lose" against their will IC, if they are determined to weasel out of anything that you try to do to them and just keep going no matter what

these OOC arguments will ideally be civil and even friendly, but it is inevitable in such a medium that there will also at times be bad feelings over them, that sometimes people will become upset and be deliberately difficult as a result, or engage in abrasive and hostile rhetoric, etc. if you're not comfortable with this inevitability then you probably shouldn't ever T1, maybe if you are good friends with someone enough to know that you can get along with them in an OOC disagreement, but other than that, it's something you should be prepared to deal with, it's part of the "game" so to speak. You have to be ready to both make your own arguments and to withstand those of an opponent without becoming uncomfortable or anxious and folding as a result

If you can do that, then the central thing around which T1 generally revolves is trying to get your opponent to accept a "hit," to do meaningful damage to their character in some form, without actually outright assuming that your attack lands when writing your posts (an "auto hit" so to speak). This is a very tricky thing to do on the face of it because you are working in a totally abstract medium in which the other person has a vested interest in never getting hit. It's a bit like trying to convince a partisan Democrat that Trump isn't Hitler, you're going to find that it's quite difficult to dislodge them and get them to accept your version of events. There are various strategies that are employed to make this easier, but the guiding principle behind them all is you have to somehow take away the opponent's ability to plausibly evade or nullify whatever attack you use, you have to set up a situation where they don't have a good argument as to how they avoided your attack, with a clear line of logic behind that lack of an ability to dodge/negate on their part.

The more common tactics employed to this end include persistent homing attacks, attacks that travel so quickly that they are nigh-instantaneous and cannot plausibly be reacted to, attacks that are invisible or otherwise obscured by an auxiliary effect such as a dust cloud, attacks that blanket a large area or launch from multiple directions at once, or attacks that have no clear form which someone could perceive and avoid on the physical plane (such as a psychic mind attack), to name some. This gives you a fairly good idea of the types of things you will do, and how you will argue them if necessary OOC, in order to take away the opponent's ability to dodge. All of them have counters of course, limitations are very loose here so everything does, but people can't just write "I dodged lol" without looking ridiculous, which is often enough to win you the match by itself if they have no other recourse and become frustrated as a result.

This is also to demonstrate that realistic (to the extent that this fantasy world can be considered as such) application of logic is going to be superior to any attempts to argue based on the mechanics of the system, for example if you try to tell someone that they can't dodge your 2 prep attack because they didn't use any preps to dodge it, that's probably not going to work very well compared to telling them that your attack travels faster than the human mind could have sent the proper messages along its neurons to prompt a motor response in the muscles. You'll notice I didn't even mention preps up until this point because they don't really matter all that much, you'll have some, your opponent will have some, the factors I already talked about will be what decides the winner, not anything to do with who has how many preps when, generally speaking (that could come into play if, for instance, two spells directly clash and one has 3 preps behind it while the other only has 1, it's probably going to be relevant then, but that's a situation that you're unlikely to encounter in the first place as the ability to dodge is the real thing that usually has to be dealt with, assuming neither party can simply be bullied into submission via OOC confrontation)

There is plenty more but that is the very very basics. I don't partake in any of this myself, in the sense of trying to be serious and competitive, but I find it endlessly amusing to observe. I'll do a spar if you want and am happy to discuss anything that happens OOC in terms of strategies and such (again, I won't be trying to actually win in an OOC sense, so I won't be combative OOC in the manner that I described above, in the sense of trying to get you to accept any kind of outcome that you yourself don't want and readily agree to)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate the insight - as for not having to ever accept I mostly understand that but the reality is I play and am going to play in the future characters who eventually are going to have disputes with other peoples characters.

My preferred method is we roll and whoever 'wins' then wins the fight and we work together to make an interesting story of the battle. The general response I've seen from other people on Valucre is full bore dismissal of the concept as a whole.

Conflict makes interesting stories - and inevitably I'm going to have to fight someone; not knowing how to do so would essentially damn me to immediate defeat which is fine with me as winning or losing is mostly irrelevant as long as the story moves on but I also don't want to needlessly delay any future encounters by asking these questions at that time.

I'd gladly accept a spar to pick up the concepts - I read some of the ToA matches to get a vague idea of the structure of the fights and they don't seem entirely out of my realm except for that I'm not fully aware of the more niche mechanics like prepping abilities. My base understanding of it is I could simply shoot a fireball that moves like a fastball and does the equivalent damage of a fastball in a single post, but if I want to fire a fireball that travels 300 feet per second and explodes like a hand grenade on contact I need to 'charge' it before hand by say, waving my hands around and chanting while dodging my opponents attacks in a reasonable manner?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Teivel Morteus said:

I appreciate the insight - as for not having to ever accept I mostly understand that but the reality is I play and am going to play in the future characters who eventually are going to have disputes with other peoples characters.

My preferred method is we roll and whoever 'wins' then wins the fight and we work together to make an interesting story of the battle. The general response I've seen from other people on Valucre is full bore dismissal of the concept as a whole.

I've been in multiple RPs where things actually were decided by dice roll and everything went just fine. The "competitive RP combat community," as you might call it, well yes of course they're going to dismiss dice out of hand, because they want to actually compete and not just flip coins at each other. If you're more concerned with story, however, you can in fact simply state that you prefer to handle conflicts by RNG (or whatever other method besides T1), and anyone that doesn't like it simply doesn't have to RP with you. This is the most reasonable approach and should prevent headaches on all sides.

I've also done fight scenes that were purely narrative in nature with no "system" in place of any kind, T1 or otherwise, and this also worked out just fine. It does depend on the type of person you're RPing with. Some people won't be very amenable to this, no. You simply need to seek out those who are, if it's up your alley.

Quote

 

Conflict makes interesting stories - and inevitably I'm going to have to fight someone; not knowing how to do so would essentially damn me to immediate defeat which is fine with me as winning or losing is mostly irrelevant as long as the story moves on but I also don't want to needlessly delay any future encounters by asking these questions at that time.

I'd gladly accept a spar to pick up the concepts - I read some of the ToA matches to get a vague idea of the structure of the fights and they don't seem entirely out of my realm except for that I'm not fully aware of the more niche mechanics like prepping abilities. My base understanding of it is I could simply shoot a fireball that moves like a fastball and does the equivalent damage of a fastball in a single post, but if I want to fire a fireball that travels 300 feet per second and explodes like a hand grenade on contact I need to 'charge' it before hand by say, waving my hands around and chanting while dodging my opponents attacks in a reasonable manner?

 

Well, I wouldn't go by ToA. It's a variant ruleset which is much more detailed than what one would consider "general T1" and basically brand new, it's not any kind of standard for how to T1. The concept of preps in general does appear in pretty much all forms of T1, though. It's the only real consistent "rule," other than "no godmoding," which is less of a T1 specific rule and more of a general RPing rule (no RP interaction with others generally tolerates auto-hits, god characters who can't be harmed, etc.). A prep simply represents your character preparing for whatever move or technique they want to field in subsequent posts. It usually takes the form of charging some type of metaphysical energy, yes, but theoretically it could be all sorts of things. I once infamously tried to prep a technique for my character by having them bunch their muscle fibers together more densely. It was a bad idea, but you see what I mean, it can be more creative than literal DBZ style "charging."

You don't have to wave your hands around or chant or anything to prep, either. You can, but most don't, usually it is more subtle like wisps of energy appearing in the air around the character absent any specific gestures or anything of the sort, but often times it's not visible to the opponent at all (like if my cyborg character is running an analysis program in his head, the enemy probably can't see that). I'll make a spar thread in the UC if you like?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a few thoughts, some which Catz addresses but I want to echo them.

1. You never have to T1, at all, ever.

2. If you don't want to T1, then don't. You won't enjoy it.

3. Conflict can be resolved in any possible way you can imagine, as long as you guys agree on it before hand.

4. The only people that aren't receptive to collaborative solutions are dickbags like me. Don't RP with dickbags.

5. No one can teach you T1. Anyone who says otherwise is full of shit.

Catz has good pointers regarding the style. That being said it is on you to read and understand the rules and then practice them.

You will go through stages of trying to figure out a hit and eventually something will work for you. Don't just stick with that, keep exploring.

There are a lot of threads about how to git gud, they each approach T1 from a different perspective. 

Spar people, spar everyone that is willing. Not with the intent of winning but with the purpose of developing understanding.

Edited by Praetorian

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can learn about T1 from others, but learning how to T1 competently is equivalent to learning a mindset - one arguably not even worth learning. Without a certain measure of trust, civility, and flexibility, it's not even fun beyond the occasional shallow victory stomping out some dbag represents.

You can make a case for critical thinking and problem-solving skills, and applied science and math - @Corban has attributed a lot of his development as a writer and his social skills to RP and T1 in particular - but I see little value in it for you if you're approaching it as an inevitability rather than an interest.

Mag, Praetorian and Syncopy like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Praetorian said:

5. No one can teach you T1. Anyone who says otherwise is full of shit.

Horse puckey. I read your thread on how to T1 in the Universal Colosseum; you taught me to T1!

That might be why I always lose. :grin:

Or that could be because I've only ever fought @bigfatcat. It's a toss-up. :laugh:

 

[Edit: Here is the thread in question, for those not willing to dig back through two years worth of UC posts. God only knows why I did.]

Edited by Charli Foxtrot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be up to spar (can't say I'm the best.) And show you what I know. About 10 years using T-1. the comment above about Ooc questioning is the truth. Not just for why a action is preformed but you need to be ready to make clarity posts and edits. Sometimes you describe and see your actions one way and the other person doesn't see it the same way. 

 

Like if you accounted for the suns position in your post keeping it at your back would make it more difficult for you to see. (actual example. Guy got mad because I pointed this out as he went full God mode blocking every attack, And arguing his couldn't miss.) often times this is why you have a third party judge who makes calls when something comes into question. 

 

Let me know if you'r interested and we can set something up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Pandorite said:

I would be up to spar (can't say I'm the best.) And show you what I know. About 10 years using T-1. the comment above about Ooc questioning is the truth. Not just for why a action is preformed but you need to be ready to make clarity posts and edits. Sometimes you describe and see your actions one way and the other person doesn't see it the same way. 

 

Like if you accounted for the suns position in your post keeping it at your back would make it more difficult for you to see. (actual example. Guy got mad because I pointed this out as he went full God mode blocking every attack, And arguing his couldn't miss.) often times this is why you have a third party judge who makes calls when something comes into question. 

 

Let me know if you'r interested and we can set something up. 

If he's not, I certainly am. I don't get much practice, and I'd love to run a spar with someone new!

That is to say, someone other than the winner of every single tournament ever in the whole wide world. :grin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every single one hu? Seems odd but okay. Do you want to pick a setting and make the first post? I'm still reading through all the locations. -Drooling over the amount of detail.-  If not I can make your basic arena setting. Doesn't really matter to me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be keeping an eye out for this thread as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"if you try to tell someone that they can't dodge your 2 prep attack because they didn't use any preps to dodge it, 

 

I'll dispute this, The rules of T-1 clearly state a block or dodge must be the same length of the attack minimum

 In the case of dodging you can expand your post to equal the size of the muti prep posts. A attack that has more than a single post involved CANNOT be blocked with a single post. 

 

This is another issue with T-1 most people don't even know all the rules. (just using This as a example. Not many actually know about this one.) which results in fights as well. 

 

A friendly match between two honest people won't always result in fighting. Just a logical oh yeah that would hit me. (Sometimes you even get more out of a loss than a win when it comes to character development.) but yeah there are a lot of those out there that fight tooth and nail over every hit. 

 

Edit: This is because a two post prep automatically has more power when using t-1 rules. At least in the case of mp vs mp or um vs um 

 

And nobody wants to see their 5k word beautifully preped post get dodged in 10 words of less. Its insane to think you can toss someone else's work out like that. When I judge if someone tried that they take the full hit (depending on how far below.) if it's a few words difference a minor scrape or bruse. But serveral paragraphs and you can enjoy the broken bones or whatever. 

Edited by Pandorite
Iedomee likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Pandorite said:

"if you try to tell someone that they can't dodge your 2 prep attack because they didn't use any preps to dodge it, 

 

I'll dispute this, The rules of T-1 clearly state a block or dodge must be the same length of the attack minimum

 In the case of dodging you can expand your post to equal the size of the muti prep posts. A attack that has more than a single post involved CANNOT be blocked with a single post. 

 

This is another issue with T-1 most people don't even know all the rules. (just using This as a example. Not many actually know about this one.) which results in fights as well. 

 

A friendly match between two honest people won't always result in fighting. Just a logical oh yeah that would hit me. (Sometimes you even get more out of a loss than a win when it comes to character development.) but yeah there are a lot of those out there that fight tooth and nail over every hit. 

 

Edit: This is because a two post prep automatically has more power when using t-1 rules. At least in the case of mp vs mp or um vs um 

 

And nobody wants to see their 5k word beautifully preped post get dodged in 10 words of less. Its insane to think you can toss someone else's work out like that. When I judge if someone tried that they take the full hit (depending on how far below.) if it's a few words difference a minor scrape or bruse. But serveral paragraphs and you can enjoy the broken bones or whatever. 

There are different variations to T1, rules vary between sites. You should check this sites variation before commenting on people not knowing the rules.

Because there is no obligation to match post length. There is no minimum length requirement. 

Not on valucre, anyway.

So if that as a rule you would like people to abide by, you might want to inform them of your addition.

Syncopy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.