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Ran Iji

NAT - Old is the Victor.

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Profile grading was certainly lacking in this tournament it felt like. It made me think back to the Chosen tournament in 2016, which is how we got such a crazy array of characters. Before I speak further about this though I am going to put down a little disclaimer because I can already hear the typing happening to say that I'm being a salty bitch.

No I am not being a salty bitch, this has nothing to do with how I feel towards my previous matches nor am I trying to invalidate anyone's victories. This is merely me pointing out something I had been chewing on for a while and didn't know how to talk about it until after I had done some digging. If you still feel the need to call me salty instead of discussing this with me then fine, but to me that's only saying that you are the salty one because you were able to get away with gaming the system in a rather major way that was missed by the judges. 

Now my understanding for this tournament was that we were operating under the rules of Valucre Chosen T1 and Valucre Mild Powers setting as this was determined to be a canonical tournament. From this we know that there were minor edits to the rules of the Valucre Chosen T1 rules because of the unique nature of the tournament (no spoilers, timed matches and that sort of thing) but there was no mention of any edits being made towards the Valucre Mild Powers rules as far as I can recall. With that in mind we must assume that all characters must then fall within those guidelines in order to be allowed into the tournament. After rereading the character sheets submitted I have found a good number of them actually break the guidelines of Valucre Mild Powers rules. 

These characters did not break the Valucre Mild Powers settings because they were using attacks of a disallowed scale (though that can be rather arguable when reading over some of the fights and the 'gentleman's agreement' mentality when it comes to how much you allow your opponent to do) they had broken the Valucre Mild Powers settings through the KIND of powers their characters used. In the Valucre Mild Powers setting thread it is stated that the use of cosmic phenomena is placed under disallowed powers list. While it is a little vague in describing said powers, many of the character sheets submitted clearly use powers with the set description of them being borne out of the cosmic universe outside of our world. That alone should have been enough for the judges to reject these characters on the basis that they did not match up with Valucre Mild Powers setting.

This plus the overly relaxed method of approving character sheets (whereas a couple of character sheets were submitted minutes before a fight happened) turned this tournament into something of a mismatch in character strength. Don't get me wrong there were great characters out there with some cool stuff with them, but it still felt a bit lopsided in what one person faced against another. To get a better sense of how this felt to me just imagine that one half of the roster was normal super heroes and the other half were silver surfers. 

I really hope the next tournament gets a bit tougher on character sheet submissions because its just not fun to feel like you're getting stomped by stuff you can barely understand. Whenever these powers are challenged (and they were far more challenged or questioned than anyone else's powers in the tournaments) we saw a lot of carefully worded explanations on how they work in regards to realistic expectations. This is something I'm coining as Jimmy Neutron science. Its cool, its funny, it makes some sweet stuff happen, but its barely sciency enough to even be considered science fiction when it feels more like science fantasy. One of the big tenets of Valucre T1 is winning through clear cut logic to convince your opponent that you've won, but Jimmy Neutron science just lets you skate by on expectations that this must work as you describe it because science. To me that's intellectually dishonest and a bit morally questionable, though seeing as how many people had done this it seemed more likely that this was just something the judges didn't care about enforcing. 

So if we are going to be moving forward with another tournament, I hope that these concerns are addressed and resolved. If not then to me its just not Valucre settings and instead some kind of alternate thing that people need to know its not consistent with the rules in order to use a character that can work within these different rules.

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A character sheet submitted. [Acceptance does not mean approval of all abilities.]

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"As mentioned before, just because you are allowed into the event doesn't mean that your character is 'approved' for use of all abilities, or even any of them."

Character sheets were only meant to provide the information of a character so that a judge or player could reference them. At no point were sheets graded. I stated that plainly. If you had issue with how a character was accomplishing a task, it was the job of the player to contact a judge during the fight.

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There's a level of good faith that is to be assumed from competitors.

1 minute ago, Sétanta the Hound said:

That's worrying and the exact reason I passed the moment I saw this tournament.

No reason to worry. The event is finished, and is one of the few tournaments in recent memory to accomplish that task.

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49 minutes ago, Warlock said:

Profile grading was certainly lacking in this tournament it felt like. It made me think back to the Chosen tournament in 2016, which is how we got such a crazy array of characters. Before I speak further about this though I am going to put down a little disclaimer because I can already hear the typing happening to say that I'm being a salty bitch.

No I am not being a salty bitch, this has nothing to do with how I feel towards my previous matches nor am I trying to invalidate anyone's victories. This is merely me pointing out something I had been chewing on for a while and didn't know how to talk about it until after I had done some digging. If you still feel the need to call me salty instead of discussing this with me then fine, but to me that's only saying that you are the salty one because you were able to get away with gaming the system in a rather major way that was missed by the judges. 

Now my understanding for this tournament was that we were operating under the rules of Valucre Chosen T1 and Valucre Mild Powers setting as this was determined to be a canonical tournament. From this we know that there were minor edits to the rules of the Valucre Chosen T1 rules because of the unique nature of the tournament (no spoilers, timed matches and that sort of thing) but there was no mention of any edits being made towards the Valucre Mild Powers rules as far as I can recall. With that in mind we must assume that all characters must then fall within those guidelines in order to be allowed into the tournament. After rereading the character sheets submitted I have found a good number of them actually break the guidelines of Valucre Mild Powers rules. 

These characters did not break the Valucre Mild Powers settings because they were using attacks of a disallowed scale (though that can be rather arguable when reading over some of the fights and the 'gentleman's agreement' mentality when it comes to how much you allow your opponent to do) they had broken the Valucre Mild Powers settings through the KIND of powers their characters used. In the Valucre Mild Powers setting thread it is stated that the use of cosmic phenomena is placed under disallowed powers list. While it is a little vague in describing said powers, many of the character sheets submitted clearly use powers with the set description of them being borne out of the cosmic universe outside of our world. That alone should have been enough for the judges to reject these characters on the basis that they did not match up with Valucre Mild Powers setting.

This plus the overly relaxed method of approving character sheets (whereas a couple of character sheets were submitted minutes before a fight happened) turned this tournament into something of a mismatch in character strength. Don't get me wrong there were great characters out there with some cool stuff with them, but it still felt a bit lopsided in what one person faced against another. To get a better sense of how this felt to me just imagine that one half of the roster was normal super heroes and the other half were silver surfers. 

I really hope the next tournament gets a bit tougher on character sheet submissions because its just not fun to feel like you're getting stomped by stuff you can barely understand. Whenever these powers are challenged (and they were far more challenged or questioned than anyone else's powers in the tournaments) we saw a lot of carefully worded explanations on how they work in regards to realistic expectations. This is something I'm coining as Jimmy Neutron science. Its cool, its funny, it makes some sweet stuff happen, but its barely sciency enough to even be considered science fiction when it feels more like science fantasy. One of the big tenets of Valucre T1 is winning through clear cut logic to convince your opponent that you've won, but Jimmy Neutron science just lets you skate by on expectations that this must work as you describe it because science. To me that's intellectually dishonest and a bit morally questionable, though seeing as how many people had done this it seemed more likely that this was just something the judges didn't care about enforcing. 

So if we are going to be moving forward with another tournament, I hope that these concerns are addressed and resolved. If not then to me its just not Valucre settings and instead some kind of alternate thing that people need to know its not consistent with the rules in order to use a character that can work within these different rules.

i mean, anyone who knows me knows i agree with your broad sentiment, but i think it's less a problem with this specific event and more a persistent issue with T1 in general; the constant arms race to make the most capable character that is somehow still technically not breaking "mild powers"

Ran has said specifically that he is aware of this issue and wants to address it, so I feel good about it, at least in regards to future Ran-held tournaments. There's not much more you can really ask for from him. This is always something for people to be aware of in T1 in general--the question of whether or not you're bringing a knife to a gun fight--and something I could weigh in on at length, but that would be better suited for an RP discussion thread than here.

22 minutes ago, Warlock said:

That seems counter intuitive on its head. Does that mean I can enter an illegal character and so long as I can sneak his powers in its all okay?

Yes. Obviously. This is something everyone should understand--you can get away with nearly anything if it isn't judge called (and sometimes even then--judges aren't perfect). It's always been this way. As nice as it would be to imagine that everyone who T1s does so with a perfectly fair and balanced mind set, I think anyone who is being honest knows this simply isn't the case in reality, regardless of how much people might assert that it is. If you're worried that the other guy simply can't be convinced to lose by any other means, which I think is clearly true in some cases, it's useful to go ahead and judge call them sooner rather than later, assuming you still want to at least try to win. If you continue to give someone the benefit of the doubt and assume good faith when it isn't actually there, then yes, you'll be taken advantage of and get screwed.

Edited by Robbie Rotten

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53 minutes ago, Warlock said:

Profile grading was certainly lacking in this tournament it felt like. It made me think back to the Chosen tournament in 2016, which is how we got such a crazy array of characters. Before I speak further about this though I am going to put down a little disclaimer because I can already hear the typing happening to say that I'm being a salty bitch.

No I am not being a salty bitch, this has nothing to do with how I feel towards my previous matches nor am I trying to invalidate anyone's victories. This is merely me pointing out something I had been chewing on for a while and didn't know how to talk about it until after I had done some digging. If you still feel the need to call me salty instead of discussing this with me then fine, but to me that's only saying that you are the salty one because you were able to get away with gaming the system in a rather major way that was missed by the judges. 

Now my understanding for this tournament was that we were operating under the rules of Valucre Chosen T1 and Valucre Mild Powers setting as this was determined to be a canonical tournament. From this we know that there were minor edits to the rules of the Valucre Chosen T1 rules because of the unique nature of the tournament (no spoilers, timed matches and that sort of thing) but there was no mention of any edits being made towards the Valucre Mild Powers rules as far as I can recall. With that in mind we must assume that all characters must then fall within those guidelines in order to be allowed into the tournament. After rereading the character sheets submitted I have found a good number of them actually break the guidelines of Valucre Mild Powers rules. 

These characters did not break the Valucre Mild Powers settings because they were using attacks of a disallowed scale (though that can be rather arguable when reading over some of the fights and the 'gentleman's agreement' mentality when it comes to how much you allow your opponent to do) they had broken the Valucre Mild Powers settings through the KIND of powers their characters used. In the Valucre Mild Powers setting thread it is stated that the use of cosmic phenomena is placed under disallowed powers list. While it is a little vague in describing said powers, many of the character sheets submitted clearly use powers with the set description of them being borne out of the cosmic universe outside of our world. That alone should have been enough for the judges to reject these characters on the basis that they did not match up with Valucre Mild Powers setting.

This plus the overly relaxed method of approving character sheets (whereas a couple of character sheets were submitted minutes before a fight happened) turned this tournament into something of a mismatch in character strength. Don't get me wrong there were great characters out there with some cool stuff with them, but it still felt a bit lopsided in what one person faced against another. To get a better sense of how this felt to me just imagine that one half of the roster was normal super heroes and the other half were silver surfers. 

I really hope the next tournament gets a bit tougher on character sheet submissions because its just not fun to feel like you're getting stomped by stuff you can barely understand. Whenever these powers are challenged (and they were far more challenged or questioned than anyone else's powers in the tournaments) we saw a lot of carefully worded explanations on how they work in regards to realistic expectations. This is something I'm coining as Jimmy Neutron science. Its cool, its funny, it makes some sweet stuff happen, but its barely sciency enough to even be considered science fiction when it feels more like science fantasy. One of the big tenets of Valucre T1 is winning through clear cut logic to convince your opponent that you've won, but Jimmy Neutron science just lets you skate by on expectations that this must work as you describe it because science. To me that's intellectually dishonest and a bit morally questionable, though seeing as how many people had done this it seemed more likely that this was just something the judges didn't care about enforcing. 

So if we are going to be moving forward with another tournament, I hope that these concerns are addressed and resolved. If not then to me its just not Valucre settings and instead some kind of alternate thing that people need to know its not consistent with the rules in order to use a character that can work within these different rules.

There was no Chosen tournament in 2016. There hasn't been one in several years. Do you mean a tournament run with the chosen ruleset?

Also my understanding was that this tournament was specifically not Valucre Chosen T1. I mean I can see why one would make that assumption but I thought Ran specified this wasn't the case? And provided his own list of rules for this tournament. 

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23 minutes ago, supernal said:

There was no Chosen tournament in 2016. There hasn't been one in several years. Do you mean a tournament run with the chosen ruleset?

Also my understanding was that this tournament was specifically not Valucre Chosen T1. I mean I can see why one would make that assumption but I thought Ran specified this wasn't the case? And provided his own list of rules for this tournament. 

Are you guys talking about the tournament I hosted? The one that got SM'd?

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18 minutes ago, Ataraxy said:

Are you guys talking about the tournament I hosted? The one that got SM'd?

I'm actually asking about the tournament myself so I'm not sure which is being referred to 

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yes

you aren't staff, so your tournament doesn't count as an "official Chosen tournament"--members who just say they're going by Chosen rule set isn't the same as the staff running one officially

oh ninja'd, that was at ataraxy

Edited by Robbie Rotten

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Yes the tournament that's technically not chosen even though it said chosen tournament and used chosen rules back in 2016 during the whole Dasua thing :P

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