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3 minutes ago, Metty said:

Okay so: Gen legendary artifact says it takes up two of your slots while the artifact rules say there's three slots?

So, I'm confused, is there three slots in total we have?

Here’s the appropriate AMA to ask this question:

 

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6 minutes ago, Metty said:

Okay so: Gen legendary artifact says it takes up two of your slots while the artifact rules say there's three slots?

So, I'm confused, is there three slots in total we have?

Site wise it was originally set at two but was changed to three shortly after. As far as I know, it's likely @King just forgot to change it when the slot max became 3. But you might want to ask him in the Gen ama in case he's specifically limiting Gen artifacts to two.

Edited by Ataraxy

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can people steal artefacts from each other? Roe isn't a thing anymore, is it?

I got told by somebody who wants to steal my artefact before I even completed the thread that'd they fight me for it? I never saw anything about this in artefact threads?

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1 minute ago, Metty said:

can people steal artefacts from each other? Roe isn't a thing anymore, is it?

I got told by somebody who wants to steal my artefact before I even completed the thread that'd they fight me for it? I never saw anything about this in artefact threads?

 I saw that conversation and Ataraxy mentioned King which means you want to ask him as the board leader for Genesaris how he intends to handle challenges for artifacts like that

The standard artifact rules do have a challenge system written out

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I know you cant challenge people for artefacts in an already existing thread in gen apparently but I wasn't too sure about after you got it the artefact it'd be different. 

Hence why im asking. Sorry I should have specified 

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2 minutes ago, Metty said:

can people steal artefacts from each other? Roe isn't a thing anymore, is it?

I got told by somebody who wants to steal my artefact before I even completed the thread that'd they fight me for it? I never saw anything about this in artefact threads?

There is not really an official global rule to artifact challenging post-obtainment (it's focused on interruptions, or at least that's how it reads), so if you want more detailed step-by-step regulations I would advise contacting the board leader of said artifact.

That being said, I know your artifact is from Genesaris, so I'll let you know what @King told me but I still suggest you talk to him. From a realistic standpoint, an artifact will attract desire regardless of whether it's owned or not. What this means is that if your character tracks down the other character who has the artifact, it can be taken. There's no official default PvP method, but it's likely that T1 will be the default if players don't agree on anything. HOWEVER, tracking down an artifact isn't easy. Valucre is twice the size of earth and 100 times more unknown. Tracking down a specific character in a specific place for a specific artifact should take, at least around 6 months unless players involved decide on something else. 

So it's possible, but the challenger needs to work for it IC. It needs to be tracked down realistically and with effort. You have to be able to show the threads and the work when alerting the BL and be like "look, this is how I got there and it can't be argued that my character got there."

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1 minute ago, Ataraxy said:

There is not really an official global rule to artifact challenging post-obtainment (it's focused on interruptions, or at least that's how it reads), so if you want more detailed step-by-step regulations I would advise contacting the board leader of said artifact.

That being said, I know your artifact is from Genesaris, so I'll let you know what @King told me but I still suggest you talk to him. From a realistic standpoint, an artifact will attract desire regardless of whether it's owned or not. What this means is that if your character tracks down the other character who has the artifact, it can be taken. There's no official default PvP method, but it's likely that T1 will be the default if players don't agree on anything. HOWEVER, tracking down an artifact isn't easy. Valucre is twice the size of earth and 100 times more unknown. Tracking down a specific character in a specific place for a specific artifact should take, at least around 6 months unless players involved decide on something else. 

So it's possible, but the challenger needs to work for it IC. It needs to be tracked down realistically and with effort. You have to be able to show the threads and the work when alerting the BL and be like "look, this is how I got there and it can't be argued that my character got there."

Well, I was more at annoyed at the fact that two characters allied with each fighting over an artefact seemed a little bit...totally out of character. 

Even if I agreed to do it, it wouldn't even make sense IC to doing it in the first place. It'd be like the most pointless thing to have RoE over of all things cause it wouldn't even make logical sense, to begin with. 

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17 minutes ago, Metty said:

Well, I was more at annoyed at the fact that two characters allied with each fighting over an artefact seemed a little bit...totally out of character. 

Even if I agreed to do it, it wouldn't even make sense IC to doing it in the first place. It'd be like the most pointless thing to have RoE over of all things cause it wouldn't even make logical sense, to begin with. 

Because of the realism portion, if the challenging character puts in enough groundwork, it might not matter if the player who has the artifact accepts or not. It'll be enforced if King or any BL for that matter, decides the groundwork is sufficient. As BL they retain rights to do so. But again, the reason that happens is because of the amount of effort put in, so it has to be a lot of effort for something like that to happen. If someone wants to steal your artifact, they better get busy tracking it down until we get close to 2021 lol

As to whether it makes logical sense or not, no one in the AMA has the ability to determine that for you. If you know what the challenger is planning and disagree with the realism of it, you should contact both the BL and the challenger in a PM to talk it out. I can only relay to you my knowledge of the general rule. If you want a case-by-case type of analysis, King is much more able to handle that than I am. 

Edited by Ataraxy
Wanted to make it less absolute lol

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Guest TheShadow
50 minutes ago, Ataraxy said:

 

 Tracking down a specific character in a specific place for a specific artifact should take, at least around 6 months unless players involved decide on something else. 

So it's possible, but the challenger needs to work for it IC. It needs to be tracked down realistically and with effort. You have to be able to show the threads and the work when alerting the BL and be like "look, this is how I got there and it can't be argued that my character got there."

So i am just curious now, But say you are tracking down a artifact in a thread or well looking for one because you challenge someone for it. Who would play the people that may or may not help you track it down, Would the board leader be the person playing the role of the opposition so to speak or determining if you got any information to begin with. maybe in this instance there should be dice rolls being done and a moderator determining if you are successful or not after each role. That way there is a chance that you will not be able to track down the artifact as it had failed.

For example Person A Asks to track down a artifact. They create a thread and set up a meet for someone with information. They take it to a dice throwing thread and whatever the chances are they role and if successful a moderator responds on there thread the outcome and a bit of RP to go along with the outcome. 

this way the system is fair to all, At least in terms of finding tracking down a artifact etc.

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4 minutes ago, TheShadow said:

So i am just curious now, But say you are tracking down a artifact in a thread or well looking for one because you challenge someone for it. Who would play the people that may or may not help you track it down, Would the board leader be the person playing the role of the opposition so to speak or determining if you got any information to begin with. maybe in this instance there should be dice rolls being done and a moderator determining if you are successful or not after each role. That way there is a chance that you will not be able to track down the artifact as it had failed.

For example Person A Asks to track down a artifact. They create a thread and set up a meet for someone with information. They take it to a dice throwing thread and whatever the chances are they role and if successful a moderator responds on there thread the outcome and a bit of RP to go along with the outcome. 

this way the system is fair to all, At least in terms of finding tracking down a artifact etc.

You'd have to bring up the dice method to the board leader. It's definitely a possible route you could take, but it's not the default. If you want to argue that being the default, you'll have to contact the artifact's board leader. 

The board leader can participate in the hunt, but there's no guarantee. My understanding is that it's pretty open ended and up for the challenger to decide. You can make up NPCs to help you out with the information, or contact other players who have characters with that information to help you out. My recommendation is that if you want to challenge an artifact, you run your idea passed the board leader first to make sure that they like it. Would be pretty sad to spend 6 months tracking down an artifact only for the BL to disagree with the way you did it. 

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18 minutes ago, TheShadow said:

-snip-

I believe Ataraxy was just giving an example with the 6 month etc thing, it just means that generally you need to be prepared to put in significant RP effort (whether it be yourself writing solo, with others or the BL etc) in order to reach the point where you can challenge the player with the artifact, and not "lol I jump out of the bushes suddenly and challenge you to a fight".

When in doubt, just reach out to the BL to find out - 1. whether they even allow challenging, 2. what the rules of a challenge are in their board.

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Ataraxy essentially repeated everything we discussed verbatim, but I'll still go ahead and post to clarify.

From my point of view-- and likewise how I approach all Genesarian relics --the "challenge" mechanic is, for the most part, ooc. It is a way for another member to acquire a relic that is "locked" by an inactive member's claim to said relic.

Example: Bob quests for the sword of ultra killing, gets it, but then goes afk after a few weeks. Tim, another player that wants the relic, can write a quick thread explaining how they found out about Bob owning the relic (the requirement is that the challenge thread be half the amount of the original quest thread) and then confronts Bob. If Bob is not there (i.e still inactive) then Tim automatically acquires the relic. If Bob is there, he can fight Tim for it, and if he wins then he has earned the right to retain said relic.

In regards to taking a relic after it's been obtained via organic role-play and interaction, yes, that can happen. Just because you quested for the relic doesn't entitle you to it forever simply because you're active. It falls to you, the player, to ensure that your character doesn't lose their relic.

Example: Brandon (Bob's character) acquires the sword of ultra killing and decides to show it off in every city he visits. Tammy (Tim's character) happens to be a shady mercenary that is in the town where Brandon is showing off his fancy new sword. Tammy decides to get a few of her guys together and mug Brandon for the sword.

Example 2: Tammy learns about a powerful weapon called the sword of ultra killing. There are rumors the sword has already been claimed, but unfortunately for Tammy, she has no idea who or what may have claimed it. So she begins the daunting task of hunting down all the clues that she can, whether that be talking with people or attempting some kind of occult ritual to perhaps give her some information. After years of research in-character (perhaps spanning months or longer oocly), Tammy gets a tip. A man name Brandon was spotted in the city of Last Chance using the sword of ultra killing to vanquish some pirates. Tammy heads there immediately to take the sword from Brandon by any means necessary.

Both of these examples show how you might lose your to another player.

@TheShadow As for your question, it isn't as simple as: "Hey, I'm writing a thread and NPC'ing people having information about the relic." If a character acquires a relic but is super careful and never uses it, how exactly would you justify an NPC magically knowing about it? Now, if you have your character putting spies in cities and towns and things like that, and a character uses their relic in said city (like in example 2 there), that is justifiable cause for you to gain some information. To echo other comments before this, at least in Genesaris, it will take considerable effort to acquire another relic from a player that is active and mindful about how and when they use their item.

Edited by King

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Couple questions about the artifact rule changes:

1. Will these changes have an ex post facto effect? Meaning it directly effects the artifacts previously gained through questing prior to the rule change?

2. Bit confused what you mean by "regular quest mechanic." Is this referring to standard questing purely by it's definition like, Man A hears of Item and embarks on quest, or do you mean any method or roleplay that doesn't involve a more competitive environment such as negotiation or adversarialism with another PC? For example, I got the Crown of Asteria, Reno Artifact, through a war thread. But the war was predetermined and only IC adversarial, not OOC. Would that count as a "regular questing mechanic?"

3. Does this new rule mean that a Player can get 3 Artifacts with 3 different characters and then exchange those Artifacts to one of their character in separate threads? Or is the thread meant to imply that you can gather 3 Artifacts with 3 different characters, but you can only get more than 1 Artifact on a character if it's owned by another Player and negotiate or challenge them?

Edited by Ataraxy

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10 minutes ago, Ataraxy said:

Couple questions about the artifact rule changes:

1. Will these changes have an ex post facto effect? Meaning it directly effects the artifacts previously gained through questing prior to the rule change?

2. Bit confused what you mean by "regular quest mechanic." Is this referring to standard questing purely by it's definition like, Man A hears of Item and embarks on quest, or do you mean any method or roleplay that doesn't involve a more competitive environment such as negotiation or adversarialism with another PC? For example, I got the Crown of Asteria, Reno Artifact, through a war thread. But the war was predetermined and only IC adversarial, not OOC. Would that count as a "regular questing mechanic?"

3. Does this new rule mean that a Player can get 3 Artifacts with 3 different characters and then exchange those Artifacts to one of their character in separate threads? Or is the thread meant to imply that you can gather 3 Artifacts with 3 different characters, but you can only get more than 1 Artifact on a character if it's owned by another Player and negotiate or challenge them?

I'm going to copy @King in here since he was the most active discussion participant

1) It is retroactive but does not have to be immediate. Which is to say any storylines currently in flight or planned don't need to be affected but at some point the transition should happen so that everyone is compliant. My intention is to be flexible where possible because no one has broken a rule but the rules have changed by design

2) Basically you can think of this as with and without needing collaboration. A regular quest mechanic can involve multiple players but doesn't require much collaboration. A single person can plan it beginning through end without input or involvement from other players. After doing that 1x, the other two claims should involve some kind of collaboration with another player. I don't think this perforce means competition is the only or preferred avenue. I would consider your example a "deal" with another player and would say that qualifies to keep the artifact. The fact that it was orchestrated doesn't invalidate it and I'd assume it contained non-adversarial negotiations (aka collaboration lol)

3) This means the limit counts by player, not character. So I can have 3 artifacts, each to a different character, or 1 character with all 3, or some combination of that. Either way the limit is applying to supernal the player

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8 minutes ago, supernal said:

I'm going to copy @King in here since he was the most active discussion participant

1) It is retroactive but does not have to be immediate. Which is to say any storylines currently in flight or planned don't need to be affected but at some point the transition should happen so that everyone is compliant. My intention is to be flexible where possible because no one has broken a rule but the rules have changed by design

2) Basically you can think of this as with and without needing collaboration. A regular quest mechanic can involve multiple players but doesn't require much collaboration. A single person can plan it beginning through end without input or involvement from other players. After doing that 1x, the other two claims should involve some kind of collaboration with another player. I don't think this perforce means competition is the only or preferred avenue. I would consider your example a "deal" with another player and would say that qualifies to keep the artifact. The fact that it was orchestrated doesn't invalidate it and I'd assume it contained non-adversarial negotiations (aka collaboration lol)

3) This means the limit counts by player, not character. So I can have 3 artifacts, each to a different character, or 1 character with all 3, or some combination of that. Either way the limit is applying to supernal the player

Thanks! I guess I'll be giving up Heartbane in the near future. Sucks but oh well.

About your answer to the third question, I think you missed my question a little. I wasn't referring to the limit count, but to the transfer mechanism of characters owned by a single player. More precisely, can a player obtain 3 Artifacts with 3 different characters and then trade among his own characters. The rules don't explicitly ban this, but your explanation for #2 does make this seem unlikely to be allowed. I'd just like it clarified for future reference haha

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