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Taen and Ursa Madeum AMA

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On 1/25/2019 at 5:58 PM, Ataraxy said:

Question

What’s the immigration path look like for someone who wants to become a full fledged citizen of Veluriyam?

 

Answer

Okay, so after spending a reasonable amount of time reading up about citizenship and watching YouTube videos that break down feualism, I can confidently say that the answer to your question is, in short, there is no path to citizenship.

L O L

Yeah! Back in the dark ages there was no such concept as "citizenship" like we have it now, though it was touched on in Ancient Greece/ Rome to guard against slavery. Simply put, the terminology didn't exist. It's a similar issue to how the Ancient Greeks couldn't see blue because there was no word for it (was like a shade of green to them, i guess).

Citizenship is a contractual and legal relationship between a person or individual and their state (country, if I'm using a non-political vocabulary). Instead, medieval mother-cities operated on Lord to Vassal relationship that was predominately based on a bond of reciprocal allowances. Ie, I guard you from attacks and give you land in exchange you work that land. It wasn't necessarily always that straight forward but outliers were the exceptions and not the standard. In this way, the vassal's loyalty was to their Lord (next tier up, their "boss" or "landlord" you could say) as opposed to the law or country. 

The concept of "citizenship" arose when the people were tired of feudalism and wanted more rights/ more say in their lives. Despite the black plague's horribleness, the enormous decrease in man power was actually what allowed the peasants to demand the rank of "the people" as opposed to "the peasants" or "the subservient." By becoming "the people" and therefore "citizens" whose loyalty was to the country, the king's power was consequently decreased, leading way to the Magna Carta and other anti-feudalism/ monarchy legislation. 

 

With that contextual info dump out of the way, a question I could give a better answer to might be "How do I become an official part of Veluriyam Empire?"

My response to that would be two fold:

  1. Become a vassal to a lord. 
    1. Once you've created a relationship with a lord, who in turn has a relationship with their Lord, and they have so on and so for up to Titus, then you're an official part of Veluriyam. Note that a Vassal applies to anyone that works/ regulates territory owned by Emperor Titus, which can range from the Duke of a Major Noble House to a wee peasant. Both are vassal of the Empire. A Duke might not work the land, but he has his own vassal that might have vassal to do that. Both, however, are given land or given the right to work land by an overlord. 
  2. Register with a Guild. 
    1. A guild is an organization which regulates and helps the merchant class find jobs. A guild can be there for anything ranging from an Adventurer's Guild to a Blacksmith Guild to a Merchants Guild to, I don't know, a Pet Daycare Guild. By gaining a licence to work from a guild, you are essentially registering as a Veluriyam "worker." Note that being registered with a Guild is not required to work in Veluriyam, but certain jobs, especially concerning Nobles and Royalty, may require you to be a registered worker so as to be confident in the quality of work. 
    2. No, there aren't an PC guilds yet. I thought about one a while back but got busy IRL and couldn't be bothered to get it off the ground. You, however, are free to do so if that's what you wish to do. 
    3. A Noble House can fund a guild but the guild master cannot be a ranking member of the house. 

 

A connecting question to all of this might be "Well what about Human Rights? Do non-vassals or non-workers still fall under that?"

The answer is "yes" because the Imperial Human Rights doctrine that Titus follows applies to everyone except Prisoners of War (an exception which I have not yet introduced, but will soon once I start using my Black Site). 

Even if you don't work in Veluriyam and are a wandering merchant, for example, you have the rights of everyone else. The only difference is that some jobs might not be available to you because of the above stated qualification proofs. 

Now, this being said, I haven't really delved too deeply in the legal system of Veluriyam and would need to in order to draft up a more succinct comparison of non-vassal/work and a vassal/ worker. But I headcanon that it doesn't matter to the Veluriyam courts if you're a "citizen" (vassal/worker) or not. If you commit the crime in Vel territory, you are subject to their jurisdiction. 

I might get into this more later, I want to finish the Terrenus Constitution first, but this is the bare bones legal doctrine I imagine:

*Note: Tiers are sort of like a spectrum. Murder 1st and Manslaughter would both be Tier 2, but by no means implies equal sentencing

Tier 3 crimes = misdemeanors: petty theft, minor assaults/ battery, using a false worker's licence, failure to pay a fine, etc

Tier 2 crimes = felony: murder of 1st and second, manslaughter, armed robbery, assault/ battery with intention to cause substantial or mortal harm, arson, etc

Tier 1 crimes = crimes against the Empire: terrorism, selling state secrets, assassination against royal or imperial family or an attempt thereof, forbidden magics

 

I'm already getting amped cause I want to go into details, but I'd end up spending the next six hours writing a codified legal system lmfao

 

Hope that helps! Lemme know if you have any follow up questions @supernal

1. How does one become a vassal?

2. I don’t mind making a guild that sounds fun. Knowing I can just do whatever is there something you’d like to see or would just make more sense inside the context of your lore?

3. Is there a pathway for a vassal or a guild leader to become part of the royal court and have “true” influence? 

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52 minutes ago, supernal said:

1. How does one become a vassal?

OOC, similar to the noble house process: make a house, have it approved, start writing. To go through the process IC, I suppose a family would have to pledge fealty to one of the minor/major noble houses and be accepted, something like promising to give Hildebrand part of your harvest if they allow you to work on their farmland and give you military protection.

That's my explanation for it, anyway. Alex may have something more.

52 minutes ago, supernal said:

2. I don’t mind making a guild that sounds fun. Knowing I can just do whatever is there something you’d like to see or would just make more sense inside the context of your lore?

Personally, there's far too little maritime trade and fishing going on for an island setting. I'm waiting on that pirates plot but it'd be fun to see more ocean threads.

52 minutes ago, supernal said:

3. Is there a pathway for a vassal or a guild leader to become part of the royal court and have “true” influence?

Have an angel queen drop down from the sky and bestow nobility upon you 

Under Veluriyam the path is probably become a vassal of a major noble house, do a lot in helping develop UM, get on the Empire's good side, maybe request for more power to help people? That's how I would do it, anyway. As far as I know there's no specific path for a vassal to become a noble house, but I do know we're keeping the number of noble houses constant, and MoonOwl recently put House Dermont on hold (we downgraded it to an aristocratic family). Maybe that could apply IC as well, if for example a noble house stepped down, Veluriyam would pick another house to take its place. Not sure though, so I'll let Alex answer this one more comprehensively.

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3 minutes ago, Csl said:

OOC, similar to the noble house process: make a house, have it approved, start writing. To go through the process IC, I suppose a family would have to pledge fealty to one of the minor/major noble houses and be accepted, something like promising to give Hildebrand part of your harvest if they allow you to work on their farmland and give you military protection.

That's my explanation for it, anyway. Alex may have something more.

Personally, there's far too little maritime trade and fishing going on for an island setting. I'm waiting on that pirates plot but it'd be fun to see more ocean threads.

Have an angel queen drop down from the sky and bestow nobility upon you 

Under Veluriyam the path is probably become a vassal of a major noble house, do a lot in helping develop UM, get on the Empire's good side, maybe request for more power to help people? That's how I would do it, anyway. As far as I know there's no specific path for a vassal to become a noble house, but I do know we're keeping the number of noble houses constant, and MoonOwl recently put House Dermont on hold (we downgraded it to an aristocratic family). Maybe that could apply IC as well, if for example a noble house stepped down, Veluriyam would pick another house to take its place. Not sure though, so I'll let Alex answer this one more comprehensively.

1) got it!

2) very well! All your fish are belong to me 

3) That's U.M. centric, which isn't a bad thing but I'm already doing a lot over there. What about this same question but in Taen instead?

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1 hour ago, supernal said:

1. How does one become a vassal?

2. I don’t mind making a guild that sounds fun. Knowing I can just do whatever is there something you’d like to see or would just make more sense inside the context of your lore?

3. Is there a pathway for a vassal or a guild leader to become part of the royal court and have “true” influence? 

1. To be a vassal is to have a "lord" that leads back to the crown. Note that "lord" doesn't mean an actual lord, but someone that is above you in the hierarchy (someone you "work" for basically). This can mean a variety of things and, while Jill's answer is correct, is not the only correct answer. A vassal doesn't have to a be land owner, so being a family/ house of certain prestige is only one route you can take. Another example might be a Hildebrand farmer. You become a vassal of Hildebrand the moment you start working for them. There are other ways, but the gist is that you "work" for someone who works for someone who works for someone else and it eventually leads back to Titus. I can't tell you exactly how to become a vassal because I'm not sure precisely what you have planned and there are a lot of paths you could take, but an IC thread would probably have your character working for a noble house or aristocratic family since those are more well known/ prestigious. But it's also possible that say, you are a vassal of House Sheathe who is a vassal of House Hildebrand who is a vassal of Veluriyam. Or, even further, you could be a vassal (worker) of the a farm family who is a vassal of Family X who is a vassal of House Sheathe who is a vassal of Hildebrand who is a vassal of Veluriyam. As an example. 

2. it does sound fun, doesn't it! I agree with Jill that more maritime stuff would be cool. I'm a nerd though so I'd be thrilled to see someone drum up an adventurer's guild lol  something like that could help sort of unite all the different Noble House areas. As in everyone has an "adventurers" ID that lets them pass through each city undisturbed or something. idk could be cool

3. Since no one wanted to be King/ Queen and Titus pretty much killed anyone with any affiliation with the previous royal court, there isn't really a "royal" court so to speak. However, some empires of the past have included nobility, body guards, attendants, entourages, etc so it would definitely be possible to join that in so much as they could suck up to a Noble House. 

If you're referring to the Imperial Court, which is the ruling family of Veluriyam, then I'd say that'd be more on a case by case basis. To join that a character would have to be important enough to Veluriyam to warrant being in Titus' circle of relative confidence. At the moment the Imperial Court is just made up of Titus, Roz, Demetrius, the Veluriyam Military Generals, the Argonauts, and whatever or advisers I deem necessary as Veluriyam progresses forward. Imo if anyone wants to join the Imperial Court, specializing in a certain subject and becoming an adviser of sorts is the way to go. There are also ladies-in-waiting, retinues, and all that general jazz. 

If an Imperial Court were to be called for something about Ursa Madeum, the Noble Houses would be required to participate as well. I'd probably deem that as court appointments though.

For a guild leader, that'd probably just require on how much influence they are able to bring to the table and what kind of person they are. If Titus sees them as beneficial to his rule and the people, and that bringing them into the court wouldn't have a negative effect, he'd invite them or something.  

27 minutes ago, supernal said:

That's U.M. centric, which isn't a bad thing but I'm already doing a lot over there. What about this same question but in Taen instead?

Taen is a bit harder to answer because it operates on a level fundamentally different from Ursa Madeum. The way that Taen is ruled at the moment is basically more akin to how colonial America was governed pre-revolution. In fact, there's only one city that's really "established" (Lunaris) while the others are in progress, some more than others. Lunaris is a governing and a sheriff, the former is appointed by the Emperor and the latter appointed by the former. I haven't delved too much into what I'd like the legal structure of Lunaris to be, but I'd say it's something of a court headed by the Governor/ someone appointed by the governor to act as judge with a jury of peers to decide on guilt. Not sure yet. 

The idea for Taen was to be a land of Adventures, wild and untamed. So strict hierarchies and government structures aren't the center piece, though with the growing population I might have to work on that a little after Reverie lol

The best way I can think of for this is referring back to the adventurer's guild which would probably rally a lot of influence very fast in Taen. 

If I had to summarize it all it would amount to "what do you bring to the table?" If the answer is nothing or a little, the way to get to the court is to turn that into "a lot" and then petition to me/ Titus or something of the like lol

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On 2/20/2019 at 5:30 PM, Grubbistch said:

What's the court system like in UM now that Titus has taken over?

So, loosely following the system of feudalism, there isn't a single overarching legal system. Port Mars, for example, will have whatever rule of law is established by House Uldwar so long as it doesn't infringe on Veluriyam's Human Rights position. Same applies for Gold Harbor, the Dali territory, Hildebrand territory, etc. 

However, the Supreme Court of Veluriyam is located in Andelusia and is the end all answer to everything, excluding a direct overturn from Titus. This is there in case there are legal issues between houses or companies of differing domains that aren't under a single house's rule of law. 

So it would be something like this:

Domain Court of Law -> Patriarch/ Matriarch of the Noble House (unless otherwise stated by the Noble House itself) -> Andelusia's Supreme Court of Veluriyam -> Roz -> Titus

Your appeal to a higher court can always be denied as well, if it's not seen as being important enough or that the answer is obvious. Ie trying to appeal an obvious terrorist charge without new evidence or something lol

On 1/25/2019 at 5:58 PM, Ataraxy said:

*Note: Tiers are sort of like a spectrum. Murder 1st and Manslaughter would both be Tier 2, but by no means implies equal sentencing

Tier 3 crimes = misdemeanors: petty theft, minor assaults/ battery, using a false worker's licence, failure to pay a fine, etc

Tier 2 crimes = felony: murder of 1st and second, manslaughter, armed robbery, assault/ battery with intention to cause substantial or mortal harm, arson, etc

Tier 1 crimes = crimes against the Empire: terrorism, selling state secrets, assassination against royal or imperial family or an attempt thereof, forbidden magics

Tier 3 and Tier 2 crimes can usually be dealt with by the Lower Courts (domain) or that House's head. But Tier 1 crimes would go directly to the Supreme Court or the imperial family. At least until a royal house or Viceroy is put into place, then this might shift a little. 

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13 minutes ago, Ataraxy said:

1. To be a vassal is to have a "lord" that leads back to the crown. Note that "lord" doesn't mean an actual lord, but someone that is above you in the hierarchy (someone you "work" for basically). This can mean a variety of things and, while Jill's answer is correct, is not the only correct answer. A vassal doesn't have to a be land owner, so being a family/ house of certain prestige is only one route you can take. Another example might be a Hildebrand farmer. You become a vassal of Hildebrand the moment you start working for them. There are other ways, but the gist is that you "work" for someone who works for someone who works for someone else and it eventually leads back to Titus. I can't tell you exactly how to become a vassal because I'm not sure precisely what you have planned and there are a lot of paths you could take, but an IC thread would probably have your character working for a noble house or aristocratic family since those are more well known/ prestigious. But it's also possible that say, you are a vassal of House Sheathe who is a vassal of House Hildebrand who is a vassal of Veluriyam. Or, even further, you could be a vassal (worker) of the a farm family who is a vassal of Family X who is a vassal of House Sheathe who is a vassal of Hildebrand who is a vassal of Veluriyam. As an example. 

2. it does sound fun, doesn't it! I agree with Jill that more maritime stuff would be cool. I'm a nerd though so I'd be thrilled to see someone drum up an adventurer's guild lol  something like that could help sort of unite all the different Noble House areas. As in everyone has an "adventurers" ID that lets them pass through each city undisturbed or something. idk could be cool

3. Since no one wanted to be King/ Queen and Titus pretty much killed anyone with any affiliation with the previous royal court, there isn't really a "royal" court so to speak. However, some empires of the past have included nobility, body guards, attendants, entourages, etc so it would definitely be possible to join that in so much as they could suck up to a Noble House. 

If you're referring to the Imperial Court, which is the ruling family of Veluriyam, then I'd say that'd be more on a case by case basis. To join that a character would have to be important enough to Veluriyam to warrant being in Titus' circle of relative confidence. At the moment the Imperial Court is just made up of Titus, Roz, Demetrius, the Veluriyam Military Generals, the Argonauts, and whatever or advisers I deem necessary as Veluriyam progresses forward. Imo if anyone wants to join the Imperial Court, specializing in a certain subject and becoming an adviser of sorts is the way to go. There are also ladies-in-waiting, retinues, and all that general jazz. 

If an Imperial Court were to be called for something about Ursa Madeum, the Noble Houses would be required to participate as well. I'd probably deem that as court appointments though.

For a guild leader, that'd probably just require on how much influence they are able to bring to the table and what kind of person they are. If Titus sees them as beneficial to his rule and the people, and that bringing them into the court wouldn't have a negative effect, he'd invite them or something.  

Taen is a bit harder to answer because it operates on a level fundamentally different from Ursa Madeum. The way that Taen is ruled at the moment is basically more akin to how colonial America was governed pre-revolution. In fact, there's only one city that's really "established" (Lunaris) while the others are in progress, some more than others. Lunaris is a governing and a sheriff, the former is appointed by the Emperor and the latter appointed by the former. I haven't delved too much into what I'd like the legal structure of Lunaris to be, but I'd say it's something of a court headed by the Governor/ someone appointed by the governor to act as judge with a jury of peers to decide on guilt. Not sure yet. 

The idea for Taen was to be a land of Adventures, wild and untamed. So strict hierarchies and government structures aren't the center piece, though with the growing population I might have to work on that a little after Reverie lol

The best way I can think of for this is referring back to the adventurer's guild which would probably rally a lot of influence very fast in Taen. 

If I had to summarize it all it would amount to "what do you bring to the table?" If the answer is nothing or a little, the way to get to the court is to turn that into "a lot" and then petition to me/ Titus or something of the like lol

All of my questions so far have been about Taen, not at all about U.M. I've already got something going in U.M. so this is entirely about Taen/Vel. So focusing on that! 

What does it take for someone to become a military general or an argonaut? What are the indicators of importance to the imperial court? It seems like the answer to that is "specialize and become an adviser" which is a ttly fair answer but then the question becomes what fields of study have the highest value for Taen? Should I specialize in farming, in manufacture, in engineering, in alchemy, etc etc? I may have some follow up questions after that but it'll depend on the answer 

For Taen "circle of influencers", I'm not looking necessarily for answers within the context of a strict hierarchy or structure, but in any organization of a group of people there are leaders and dynamics to keep in mind. It doesn't need to be a king or general. It can be an elder, it can be a witch-doctor, etc. Basically abstracted the question is who are the respected and influential of Taen, and how does one become that? It could be completely outside of government structure and focus entirely on corporation and capitalism and maybe it means that I need to become a robber baron in order to belong to the upper echelon but I'm basically looking to find out what that is.

So becoming a member of the adventuring guild would be the first step for someone that wants to gather influence in Taen, and maybe becoming the leader of the guild would be a far goal?

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7 hours ago, supernal said:

All of my questions so far have been about Taen, not at all about U.M. I've already got something going in U.M. so this is entirely about Taen/Vel. So focusing on that! 

What does it take for someone to become a military general or an argonaut? What are the indicators of importance to the imperial court? It seems like the answer to that is "specialize and become an adviser" which is a ttly fair answer but then the question becomes what fields of study have the highest value for Taen? Should I specialize in farming, in manufacture, in engineering, in alchemy, etc etc? I may have some follow up questions after that but it'll depend on the answer 

For Taen "circle of influencers", I'm not looking necessarily for answers within the context of a strict hierarchy or structure, but in any organization of a group of people there are leaders and dynamics to keep in mind. It doesn't need to be a king or general. It can be an elder, it can be a witch-doctor, etc. Basically abstracted the question is who are the respected and influential of Taen, and how does one become that? It could be completely outside of government structure and focus entirely on corporation and capitalism and maybe it means that I need to become a robber baron in order to belong to the upper echelon but I'm basically looking to find out what that is.

So becoming a member of the adventuring guild would be the first step for someone that wants to gather influence in Taen, and maybe becoming the leader of the guild would be a far goal?

We have a planned plot to set up two more Taen cities (three, actually, but that last one's a ghost town in a literal sense) and post an interest check for important IC roles like governors, scientists, inventors, etc.

But as for important/needed roles and a brief overview of the themes of each city:

  • Lunaris: adventurers, blacksmiths, potion-sellers, map-makers, food and restaurants, an economy centered around catering to adventurers and trading with the local Mork'Outh
  • City 2: scientists, researchers, clean energy device inventors: this is a small city focused on researching Taen's loci and environment, also the base of Veluriyam's R&D institution, Khartes.
  • City 3: miners, warriors, mercenaries, ranged weapon inventors, spelunkers: an mining/outpost city near the mountains that keeps an eye on the Yh'mi mountain and warns Lunaris of Xer'orian attacks.

Admittedly I got too caught up in other Valucre things recently so I'll be moving Taen lore rewrites and updates up my to-do list. 

Alex can answer the military one, but the Argonauts are more of NPC robot guardian things and not really a playable role.

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1 minute ago, notmuch_23 said:

Are there any popular sports in Ursa Madeum, such as combat sports, ball sports, field sports, bowling sports, or any other kind of sports?

Combat-related and sailing-related probably. Archery and sparring are also likely candidates. Remember, this is a medieval setting with a mostly medieval culture.

For the nobles, I imagine board games like chess or whatnot are popular, as well as sports with horses (races, obstacle courses, jousting,)

 

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19 minutes ago, notmuch_23 said:

Types of bowling were also around in medieval times. King Henry VIII was an avid bowler even.

In 400 AD apparently, Kegel was started as a religious ritual.

I didn't know that, but cool fact. If you'd like to write up a lore article about the history of bowling in UM, feel free to do so if you think that'd fit in the setting or would be accepted by the nobles, or ask the noble house players personally if they'd like to incorporate that in their lore ^_^

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2 hours ago, Csl said:

I didn't know that, but cool fact. If you'd like to write up a lore article about the history of bowling in UM, feel free to do so if you think that'd fit in the setting or would be accepted by the nobles, or ask the noble house players personally if they'd like to incorporate that in their lore ^_^

If they don't, Thurgood and/or Aveline might introduce ten-pin...

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That if one writes their wish upon a piece of paper, bleed on it a little, then drop it into the hole in the tree, the wish will come true, but on the next full moon, a spirit will visit you in the night to take your very soul, adding you to the collection of strange Moss which grows on the tree, a Moss that seems to grow eyes and teeth...

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