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Time will tell [UM noble house meeting]

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3 hours ago, EpicRome23 said:

If it won't be any issue, Zerand Blacklong, Baron of Aligoria, will be spectating.

He will also be bringing Aligorian tea (the finest in Terrenus, undoubtedly) for his own consumption, and that of anybody else who may want it. ?

 

3 hours ago, Thotification said:

? Can Taen's banker Madame Linda  Pinda spectate?

Sorry, I'll be limiting attendees to those in Ursa Madeum or affiliated with the houses there. Primera is close with the Mythals (and has a port in Corinth) and Tynes is also working closely with Karradeen and a few other houses.

@EpicRome23 we can discuss a Veluriyam-Aligoria alliance though. I like factions. Especially if they're independent from the Terran government.

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6 hours ago, Csl said:

I like factions. Especially if they're independent from the Terran government.

Yes, down with the Terran government! 

*holds a magic tome-burning rally*

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1 hour ago, danzilla3 said:

I mean, given the Safeguard act, they might like that.

Only a minority of cities signed up for it and regulation isn’t the same thing as destruction 

I recommend reading glasses mr. Zilla you’re slipping all over the place (that almost corrected to placenta)

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5 hours ago, supernal said:

Only a minority of cities signed up for it and regulation isn’t the same thing as destruction 

I recommend reading glasses mr. Zilla you’re slipping all over the place (that almost corrected to placenta)

You really put me in my placenta. 

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Reluctantly had to go on a trip today and tomorrow's Sunday, so threads will be up on Monday. Also I'm trying to figure out a seating arrangement that will cause the least bloodshed and slap fights, which is hard.

Sorry for the delay ; - ;

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Thread is up:

Spectator thread here:

Seating arrangement, which I've also updated in the first post of the OOC

uvuNXF14Ni9JNfIe9VNSM3i8luh0yPaqDhbCYf-YM_Ga3uimYe1_eDYBX5P0nKDCNLrau9i8wNKohV4_hkF3sGYHU6x-0UYPusVC7rwwUoLkPD8juQEXZeSxwZzc2ljlHBMZe5H4lYuHS3aeD7lonWN3RsBo_LBjBO7KkuIJ4OPODJYxuWkBpaSmY34nRrJT4IEXwEXDTH0bi_amYrB38ZCN8dBgpFe0mI1DjKCGo_HGDlpQzl1LxJVFMm1Kssa5VVCApAonosqtr3fVFVBo3cvMSc_3QG6leYKvbRbqGtAFZczgpfEvxhzOYSjfqlVybgVKxA_f2fSZw4ep0Pyg-VKoHBfUqpTNJuDasIQBcKo0yfHMbhVpGYCi46nMF3wMLYtomBTZO2xVaHO-zTzRZt19Ns5pm4vGHS-Bv77K6ABPJR_sz_ahJWcw66TOEoKaFsGhqdFVMbwPKbcTHAsYrBHyNzH4VD6e4L2AaTBWslmsiPCCH6WHB6HKEubqPXoDHQ0_tXrn1wSrD0rrrhbkESRSSMue3WLPhPIrNCfN_QN-eBGUnjPiQ_yfLkQ3E8BBU8rSJFJpfFYxAs9xMaUh1KXtelju3SVZ7wkoWML1P2g1Yb3_UIh812JrbXsWDXSPMCEFfpP6h36Tcj9rVTTKwi0LcL62mT0rUJcLHyTo-WRcEuQ9t_5d3_RBYj4qaxQ0G5kTaanEkRj5L2bd78MIpVPO=w800-h437-no

The list of topics to be discussed, more or less in order.

  • Eruption of Mount Egon
    • House Tankred
    • Damages; state of Misral
    • Mia Uldwar
  • Capture of Oscar Uldwar; Leadership of Uldwar
  • The Oathsworn
  • Ursa Madeum Independence
Edited by Csl

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Just looking to confirm something at the meta level and hopefully preclude lots of research with some quick questions. As a note I'm aware that the rights enumerated are just written on the paper, not announced to the room, so this doesn't hold up my post in any way

Singlance is a strong advocate for, if we can put a specific and single phrase around it, "common citizen rights". When I was asking Ataraxy about the citizenship process for Vel., he clarified the fact that Vel. doesn't have citizens, the concept of citizenry being a more modern conceit

How closely does this concept of rights, or of even a common citizen, that Singlance wants to bestow on UM common citizens alignt, by decree, with the rights of the common citizens of Vel? @Csl

Does Singlance take this same kind of stance / form this kind of petition in Vel? @notmuch_23

Edited by supernal

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3 minutes ago, supernal said:

Just looking to confirm something at the meta level and hopefully preclude lots of research with some quick questions

Singlance is a strong advocate for, if we can put a specific and single phrase around it, "common citizen rights". When I was asking Ataraxy about the citizenship process for Vel., he clarified the fact that Vel. doesn't have citizens, the concept of citizenry being a more modern conceit

How closely does this concept of rights, or of even a common citizen, that Singlance wants to bestow on UM common citizens alignt, by decree, with the rights of the common citizens of Vel? @Csl

Does Singlance take this same kind of stance / form this kind of petition in Vel? @notmuch_23

I too have this question, as Hildebrand already offers their farmers and vassals rights very similar to what Singlance is planning to propose ?

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16 minutes ago, supernal said:

Just looking to confirm something at the meta level and hopefully preclude lots of research with some quick questions

Singlance is a strong advocate for, if we can put a specific and single phrase around it, "common citizen rights". When I was asking Ataraxy about the citizenship process for Vel., he clarified the fact that Vel. doesn't have citizens, the concept of citizenry being a more modern conceit

How closely does this concept of rights, or of even a common citizen, that Singlance wants to bestow on UM common citizens alignt, by decree, with the rights of the common citizens of Vel? @Csl

Does Singlance take this same kind of stance / form this kind of petition in Vel? @notmuch_23

The ANT Treaty states that "All member nations must protect the basic rights of their citizens" which are pretty much in line with notmuch's charter of rights. You can assume that at least in the territories Vel 100% has authority over (Taen's cities and Stronghold at the moment) these are implemented. Ursa Madeum's a unique case in that Vel lets the houses govern their own places as they like, intervening only in extreme cases like Oscar murdering several Hildebrand knights. If they got wind of serious human rights abuses, they'd definitely intervene, but it's entirely possible Uldwar's still executing criminals and Karradeen's still torturing pirates.

I think notmuch's going by the assumption that UM's still pretty medieval in that in some Houses, there are executions and people jailed without trial (Uldwar's the only example I can think of at the moment but I believe Karradeen has a torture chamber somewhere)

In this case, the proposed rights would probably be something to be approved and implemented nationwide by the new republic/monarchy/council government which notmuch's probably gunning for.

Edited by Csl

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11 minutes ago, Csl said:

The ANT Treaty states that "All member nations must protect the basic rights of their citizens" which are pretty much in line with notmuch's charter of rights. You can assume that at least in the territories Vel 100% has authority over (Taen's cities and Stronghold at the moment) these are implemented. Ursa Madeum's a unique case in that Vel lets the houses govern their own places as they like, intervening only in extreme cases like Oscar murdering several Hildebrand knights. If they got wind of serious human rights abuses, they'd definitely intervene, but it's entirely possible Uldwar's still executing criminals and Karradeen's still torturing pirates.

I think notmuch's going by the assumption that UM's still pretty medieval in that in some Houses, there are executions and people jailed without trial (Uldwar's the only example I can think of at the moment but I believe Karradeen has a torture chamber somewhere)

In this case, the proposed rights would probably be something to be approved and implemented nationwide by the new republic/monarchy/council government which notmuch's probably gunning for.

Oh I wasn't asking about the motivation for the characters themselves, which I think I pretty much have a solid grasp on. I just wanted to answer those two specific questions

So per the ANT treaty, "basic rights" is pretty much the itemized list that the Singlance's are going to bring forward. I wanted to make sure that even though Vel doesn't recognize its citizens as citizens, in the specific use of the word, it maintains their rights to bear weapons, petition them for redress, and rebel. So that answers that

And *because* they're the same thing there is no need for Singlance to do this kind of petition in Vel. It sees these rights that Vel recognizes as lacking in UM, essentially. I wanted to confirm the scope of their advocacy on this

The "fight the government until you get this from them" tone of notmuch's post doesn't really mesh with the "seek to get this approved and implemented nationwide by the new government" tone you're laying out here, which is why I had to ask

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16 minutes ago, Csl said:

I believe Karradeen has a torture chamber somewhere

You bet.

That said, as much as I'd like to be a rebel and violate rights here, I have to note that I don't think the pirates count as "citizens" (or the equivalent thereof), therefore rights cannot and should not be afforded to them. Unless Vel operates under an assumption of universal human rights (rather than just citizens rights) or if they granted blanket amnesty to everyone living in the islands at the time of their takeover (and if that is the case, do let me know! More fuel to Abigail's anti-Vel sentiment).

Edited by Tyler

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Just now, Tyler said:

You bet.

That said, as much as I'd like to be a rebel and violate human rights here, I have to note that I don't think the pirates count as citizens, therefore rights cannot and should not be afforded to them. Unless Vel operates under an assumption of universal human rights (rather than citizens rights) or if they granted blanket amnesty to everyone living in the islands at the time of their takeover (and if that is the case, do let me know! More fuel to Abigail's anti-Vel sentiment).

 

5 minutes ago, supernal said:

The "fight the government until you get this from them" tone of notmuch's post doesn't really mesh with the "seek to get this approved and implemented nationwide by the new government" tone you're laying out here, which is why I had to ask

Yeahh. That part's probably better clarified by the guy himself.

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