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Another raid OOC

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I read it as negate any +1 or -1 modifiers that exist, and then you get a better roll since you halve your roll. Since your attack was the first roll made for this particular engagement, there’s no existing modifiers to be negated. Which does actually mean that your roll was really 7 = 2, then divided by 2 = 1. I think.

Edited by jaistlyn

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On 9/17/2019 at 5:36 PM, supernal said:

@Praetorian

RE rolling system. I read my 10 reroll as the consequent rolls being a critical hit / not to be opposed. Is that the way it’s done or does jaist still do an opposing roll the way she has?

 

On 9/17/2019 at 7:57 PM, jaistlyn said:

I read it as negate any +1 or -1 modifiers that exist, and then you get a better roll since you halve your roll. Since your attack was the first roll made for this particular engagement, there’s no existing modifiers to be negated. Which does actually mean that your roll was really 7 = 2, then divided by 2 = 1. I think.

10 or 5 initiates a reroll. If you reroll you lose all modifiers, and your roll values are modified to become: 10/5 = 3, 9/4 = 2, 8/3 = 2, 7/2 =1, 6/1=1

 

So in the instance of a reroll, your actual value is 1, rather than 2, because of how the reroll works.

 

I did the reroll thing just to add a higher level of uncertainty, however it might be too complicated. Feedback is always welcome.

Anyway, the confusion probably stems from how I layered information. The reroll information is in between the normal roll information. So you're probably interpreting the continuation of one explanation as being part of the reroll explanation @supernal

As a rule of thumb, any action you take can be responded to. The exception is the preemptive strike, which has a flat damage value and is basically just a success or fail roll.

 

The incorporation of the term success, as it relates to roll results, can be seen as accuracy/precision of the action. If you shoot at someone a 1 indicates that your shot placement is exactly where you want it. If they roll a 1 also that means that their defense of action was sufficient to negate the majority of the shot damage, regardless of how great your placement was.

If you roll a 1 and they roll a 4, it means that there was no mitigation of damage, so your well placed shot fucks some shit up.

If you roll a 2, your shot placement is still on target, but maybe you missed a critical area. They however are still afforded an opportunity to try to mitigate damage.

If you roll a 3, grazing hit.

A 4 is a total miss.

Generally, both people need to make a roll for the purposes of determining disparity value.

Disparity: Disparity will be explained with scenarios, for the purposes of this assume A is always attacking B, and B is defending against A.

 A rolls 1, B rolls 4. (3 Disparity) A is awarded a -1 modifier for a future roll. B is awarded a + modifier for future rolls. A gets to impose a desired effect on B. B loses 50%  units or 5 units, whichever is greater.

A rolls 2, B rolls 4 (2 Disparity). A is awarded a -1 modifier for a future roll. A gets to impose a desired effect B. B loses 25% units or 2 units, whichever is greater.

A rolls 3, B rolls 4 (1 Disparity) A gets to impose a desire effect on B. B loses units 10% of units or 1 unit, whichever is greater.

A and B roll same number (0 Disparity). B loses 1 unit.

A rolls 4, B rolls 1 (3 disparity). A gains a +1 modifier to next roll, B gets a -1 modifier to next two rolls.

A rolls 4, B rolls 2 (2 disparity). A gains +1 modifier to next roll, B gets -1 modifier to next roll.

A rolls 4, B rolls 3 (1 disparity). A gains a +1 modifier to next roll.

 

Which is the most important number.

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I usually drop a thread if it hasn't gotten any attention after two weeks and for this one we're just a few days shy of going a month. So I'm going to clear this from my plate so I can jump on a few other projects

If Praetorian and the Abaddon side want things to keep going then I figure players can downshift to one on each side (whoever is the most vested) or I can continue to discuss tactics and Praetorian make posts for both of us (or just give him all my resources and he can use them how he pleases)

Alternatively we can just discuss a palatable outcome for both parties, or discuss tactics ooc with rolls where appropriate until we get to an end result and then write that out, or do one Final Roll to Rule Them All, or pause for a few months until 2020 / other threads get resolved (for me anyway), or whatever else anyone else thinks of and people agree to

Edited by supernal

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Pausing the thread indefinitely doesn't really work for Abbadon, because we are constantly (if slowly) moving our plots forward, and the outcome of this skirmish does affect how the organization does things / where resources are placed.

tbh Justice is the attacker here, and Abbadon is on the defending side, if the attacking side drops the RP, the best logical outcome for the Abbadon side is that this fight never happened. We stop it at Justice killing the Khan, finding out about Abbadon, then regrouping somewhere to consider their next course of action - but of course this means Abbadon will have time to react to it and move resources etc before the next engagement, whenever that may be.

I don't really feel it is fair to drop it to 1 x 1, nor would I be interested in that, but if Praetorian wants to control both resources vs Fierach and myself, then it works for me and we can continue. But my preference right now is to call it a draw, agree on what each side gains + loses and move on. 

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You eliminated indefinitely as an option. Totally works for me. I also suggested 2 months. You can suggest a point between 2 months and indefinitely that works for you, if such a point exists; pausing indefinitely isn’t the only pause option

Also I mentioned a few pages ago that the pacing of waiting weeks on end for a post doesn't work for me (But am aware it works for others) and that I also would not be the only person project managing the thread for getting people to post. No one else has come in here to try to keep the thread moving (vs to get answers to questions) and I'm not going to be the only one. Both sides should be invested in concluding the thread. So we can ignore my post altogether if every other participant in the thread, defending side included, shows up to see that this gets pushed to a viable end. It just seems I’m the only one that cares that much and if I am there’s no reason my tyrannical spreadsheet has to ruin the fun for everyone but I’m also not trying to just abandon it like it never happened

So let's walk it back to before I suggested getting back a slot on my spreadsheet. How do we resolve? We can call it a draw and do what you said, I'm 100% amenable towards it, but if you have any other preference, any whatsoever, we can go that route too, up to and including keeping things just as they are but everyone does the needful

edit - btw for 1x1, I didn't mean single combat if it came across like that. I mean one player on each side controlling resources and continuing the roll system. If that's how it came across the first time I said it then nvm I just wanted to clarify

Edited by supernal

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I don't really like waiting weeks for a response either, but I understand that we all got other things going on (and am myself guilty of taking long too). That being said, I'm agreeable to a draw, 1 v 1, 2 v 1, whichever the case might be. 

Also why the fuck did I not have this thread followed. I'm stupid. Ignore me 

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Praetorian let me know that he is unfortunately not in a place to be able to continue the thread right now. Not for lack of interest, life is just doing that thing that life does

So with that said I think the quickest path to palatable resolution is to go ahead with a draw and discuss what that looks like. If we end up reaching an impasse we can re-evaluate the other options

One thing I'd really love to be able to claim on our side out of all of this is freeing the remaining centaurs from the mind control. It would dovetail nicely with Jericho's freedom complex and the whole thing he did in Izral with the human trafficking.

I think I've put in a comparable effort, or more, into freeing the centaurs as was put into enslaving them so it's my opinion that this is a reasonable ask. I can be swayed on this though since I don't know how deeply they factor into Abaddon's long-term plans or anything else that may have happened behind the scene that could bolster the opposite claim

In exchange I think it's reasonable to say that Abaddon would be on alert, metal gear solid! style, to pending attack and have ample time to shore up defenses, move resources, and just generally be ready for action so that the next engagement is more full on and less "surprise!"

If that sounds agreeable for gains we can discuss losses next, inclusive of the fact that freeing centaurs means loss of personnel on Abaddon's side and should be factored into whatever Justice loses. If it doesn't then let me know what the collective feels are

Edited by supernal

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Sure, we can go with freeing the centaurs, but with the agreement that they become a neutral party. Individual centaurs may join either Justice or Abbadon (e.g. to get back at the other for either enslaving them/killing their head) , but the clan as a whole would not take either side, unless with further RP effort.

Here are the other things we propose (some of these have not happened yet, but this is what we would like to see as if the conflict is taken to its conclusion)

1. Abbadon gains knowledge about the existence of Jericho and Ashton in Justice, and their broad skills (raising undead, control of metal golems, having a contingent of mages, as well as undead knights) - these are assumed to be conveyed to Mori via technology installed in her machines, as well as a handful of the mutants who survive the attack and return to them.

2. Abbadon abbandons (Ha!) most of the resources in the farms - mostly food, economic resources. Mori’s machines are left behind (will touch on this later.) However, the location of the bulk of their main resources which have been pulled out of Patia is not revealed.

3. All Centaurs are freed from the mind control, and become a neutral party, or rather, hostile to both parties.

4. Through the fight, or through interrogation after, etc, Justice can learn something about Abbadon - notably that one of its members is capable of organic manipulation, and that he is one of the upper echelons. A physical description is also given, but this man is unremarkably average-looking. They can also learn that Abbadon aims to raise the statuses of those oppressed and cast aside, and that they have picked up many a man from the streets and given them roles to play in the organization (most of the mutants are like that.)

5. We propose that, for both sides to think that the other is not to be underestimated, and to be surprised by the skills and tenacity of the other, that there is substantial loss of life for both Justice and Abbadon: centaurs and mutants on the Abbadon side, and an equivalent amount of forces for Justice. No primary member of Abbadon was in the farm, so no primary member of Justice will get harmed either.

6. Mori’s machines are equipped with self-destruct mechanisms. Which means the farmstead we were fighting in is going to go boom when Abbadon determines that they are at risk of losing this fight. The machines will be destroyed, so Justice will not be able to examine their tech, at least not in detail, and will not be able to trace the machines back to where they were being commanded from. We propose that this is what causes some or most of the loss of life. Some or all of the Lingxi workers holed up in their home will be injured/killed by this (gotta play the villain role right?!)

@Fierach @Tyler @Dolor Aeternum chip in if I missed out anything or misinterpreted anything you guys said, thanks!

@supernal the points are up for discussion.

Edited by jaistlyn

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On 10/17/2019 at 11:08 PM, jaistlyn said:

Sure, we can go with freeing the centaurs, but with the agreement that they become a neutral party. Individual centaurs may join either Justice or Abbadon (e.g. to get back at the other for either enslaving them/killing their head) , but the clan as a whole would not take either side, unless with further RP effort.

Here are the other things we propose (some of these have not happened yet, but this is what we would like to see as if the conflict is taken to its conclusion)

1. Abbadon gains knowledge about the existence of Jericho and Ashton in Justice, and their broad skills (raising undead, control of metal golems, having a contingent of mages, as well as undead knights) - these are assumed to be conveyed to Mori via technology installed in her machines, as well as a handful of the mutants who survive the attack and return to them.

2. Abbadon abbandons (Ha!) most of the resources in the farms - mostly food, economic resources. Mori’s machines are left behind (will touch on this later.) However, the location of the bulk of their main resources which have been pulled out of Patia is not revealed.

3. All Centaurs are freed from the mind control, and become a neutral party, or rather, hostile to both parties.

4. Through the fight, or through interrogation after, etc, Justice can learn something about Abbadon - notably that one of its members is capable of organic manipulation, and that he is one of the upper echelons. A physical description is also given, but this man is unremarkably average-looking. They can also learn that Abbadon aims to raise the statuses of those oppressed and cast aside, and that they have picked up many a man from the streets and given them roles to play in the organization (most of the mutants are like that.)

5. We propose that, for both sides to think that the other is not to be underestimated, and to be surprised by the skills and tenacity of the other, that there is substantial loss of life for both Justice and Abbadon: centaurs and mutants on the Abbadon side, and an equivalent amount of forces for Justice. No primary member of Abbadon was in the farm, so no primary member of Justice will get harmed either.

6. Mori’s machines are equipped with self-destruct mechanisms. Which means the farmstead we were fighting in is going to go boom when Abbadon determines that they are at risk of losing this fight. The machines will be destroyed, so Justice will not be able to examine their tech, at least not in detail, and will not be able to trace the machines back to where they were being commanded from. We propose that this is what causes some or most of the loss of life. Some or all of the Lingxi workers holed up in their home will be injured/killed by this (gotta play the villain role right?!)

@Fierach @Tyler @Dolor Aeternum chip in if I missed out anything or misinterpreted anything you guys said, thanks!

@supernal the points are up for discussion.

1) I'm fine with knowledge of all the skills enumerated. For specific knowledge about the named characters, I'm fine with general physical traits but not enough fidelity to, say, sketch their faces out. Thoughts?

2) Sounds good

3) I like the idea of the centaurs being hostile towards both parties as a baseline. If I can wiggle in a little nuance here I'd like to propose they be hostile-neutral towards Justice and hostile-hostile towards Abaddon. I think it both makes sense and is more intriguing to have any interactions with the centaurs require RP effort but also think that Justice has a bit better of a foot to put forward in any attempts to establish a dynamic. I think it fits nicely against "abaddon = villains but justice =! heroes". Thoughts?

4) I'd like it it to be through the fight please. For physical traits on Rodan (?) I'm fine with it being as generic as my own request in the above. I think the "raise status" tidbit of information is something we should fix as the result of RP effort since it seems like it would more naturally rise from interrogation and that'll be hard while they're on the hostile axis

5) This sounds absolutely delicious

6) Understood and it does make for a good plot device and, I think, a natural jumping point for Justice to "roll for charisma" to sway the centaurs towards a more positive direction from hostile-neutral (if you all agree to this)

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It all sounds good to me! The question is now that the main points of the battle’s conclusion is out of the way, is everyone still up for continuing the writing and to play out everything? I would prefer to RP it out, with more sweeping actions since we don’t need to worry about die rolls anymore. But I’m not in a rush, I don’t mind pausing it and resuming some time down the road as well. 

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